No. I just posted in the other thread, but I actually support most of the reforms. I can understand why veteran teachers are opposed, but I'm not a veteran teacher, and I'm not opposed.
To the person who thinks this is about Mitch, are you following current events at all? This is a national, bipartisan movement. Whether you agree or disagree with the specific initiatives, framing them as something unique to Mitch Daniels, Indiana, or republicans is just silly.
Amen to your post! If we in IPS would open our eyes and ears and pay attention to what's going on with education beyond the boundaries of our little world, then we'd all realize that educational reform is absolutely and totally bi-partisan. President Obama campaigned with education reform as one of his planks; Arne Duncan, Sec. of Education, has dictated that 'caps be removed from the number of charter schools allowed' in order to receive Race to the Top funds. What is currently happening is not a Mitch Daniels or a Republican idea; it's a national, bi-partisan idea. We sound so small and narrow when we think educational reform is only on the plate here in Indiana to punish us. Read a good newspaper occasionally or even Time magazine. Educate yourself before making shallow remarks. Better yet, organize a big national rally in front of the White House!
@When the reforms include taking away collective bargaining rights there is a problem.
The way a lot of taxpayers view collective bargaining is that if we are teachers in a school district where only 50% of the students graduate with a high school diploma, then we don't have a lot of performance leverage to bargain for much of anything, other than perhaps mercy. Yes, I am a classroom teacher with IPS on my lunch break, and no, I will not be going to any rally and make a fool of myself before taxpayers.
"Bargaining rights." Rights. That term is 100 accurate. Workers having rights to bargain collectively translates into personal freedom. No rights to organize and bargain: freedom limited/restricted. I don't care if it's Obama or Daniels perpetrating efforts to limit this freedom, they are wrong.
Before trade unions gained strength in America in the early 1900s, most workers were required to be on the job six days a week, 10 hours a day. I predict teaching is headed in this direction.
At this point, the "reformers" will chime in: "But this is about the kids, not the manufacture of products in an industry."
It is about kids. How effective is a teacher going to be who can't pay his/her mortgage/electric bill/car payment, etc.? How effective is a teacher going to be who is required to jump through even more bureaucratic hoops than are already required? How effective is a teacher going to be when he/she sees incompetent administrators/"coaches", etc. have even greater control over the teacher's professional fate? How effective is a teacher going to be when it's even more "all about the test scores?"
The truth is that high school graduates will keep going to college to major in education. This is because they really want to make a career of teaching young people. But after 2-3 years in the "trenches," they will head out for greener pastures (I read recently that the average young teacher currently stays in the profession for only five years).
I can't make it to the rally, but I hope there is a good turnout. If these proposed measures go through the Legislature as they are, the future will be bleak for all Indiana teachers. And, I believe, for the future of education in this state.
It's time that teachers stand up for themselves and refuse to be made the villains of education by self-serving politicians - and self-serving newspaper columnists who write against teachers unions while working in a union shop (newspaper Guild) themselves.
Did you hear about the deal struck between the A.D.s, the IPS Police Chief, and Victor Bush. They are going to pay IMPD Officers to work athletic events and force IPS Officers to flex their hours to assist the IMPD Officers. So much for providing police coverage for the building during the school days.
The rally won't make a difference. It's really a very small but vocal minority of the population who is against these reforms. Yes, a good portion of teachers are against them, but teachers are a small percentage of voters, and even teachers are divided on this. I'm still in school to become a teacher, but I really hope these reforms go through. We can't prepare children for the 21st century if we're stuck 19th century school systems.
I wish I could be there too, but not on the side of public education. My idea of "reform" involves a whole lot more than a few vouchers. It involves removing government from education completely. The entire department of education has no basis whatsoever in the Constitution. This along with all other forms of government forced income redistribution (AKA theft) are the primary reason for the downfall of this country. It has created generations of pathetic sheep who think their well being is someone Else's responsibility. Well over 40% of people in this country pay no taxes at all and survive solely off the taxes unjustly collected from others. The vast majority of these parasites are the same people wasting our money in public education. This is an unsustainable spiral of failure that will only get worse. We've reached a point in our society where if all this government babysitting were suddenly removed forcing people to actually support themselves, we'd likely experience near anarchy. It's hard to tell what would be worse, but I think I'd rather take my chances relying on myself rather than the government.
Now go ahead and call me all the names you want. It only proves you are on the side of those too weak live without a safety net.
Your viewpoint doesn't even make sense (which several people told you the last time you posted.) Poor people aren't who would throw a fit if we stopped funding public education. They benefit very little from it and would do better under your proposed system because companies would have to educate their own employees. It's middle-class and wealthy people who benefit from public funding of education. Middle class people receive expensive education for their children without having to pay for it, and wealthy people receive moderately-educated middle-class employees without having to pay to educate them. Poor people don't benefit from public education. They end up working retail and manual labor jobs that require very little of what public schools are selling.
I agree with most of the school reform ideas. Teachers should be help accountable and not kept around because of their seniority. There are too many safe teachers in IPS that need to be called out. The charter school concept will start out crazy. After some time parents will realize the charter schools aren't all they are cracked up to be.
I'm not going to call you any name, other than smart and candid. Nothing wrong with being either one. Currently, we are taxed to the hilt in the US. We've spent money on education like there's no tomorrow; however, tomorrow is here. There is no more money.
So you all will not mind if the government gives me my money back that would be used for public education? That way I can pay for a private education for my child.
LOL, not even close. You'd get back half of your property tax. That'll buy you about three weeks at a prep school or a little over two months at a primary parochial school. For one child.
Everybody who send their kid to public school is a welfare recipient. Even if you are filthy rich and live in a 2-million dollar house, in Indiana, you'd still only pay 10,000 a year toward public education, which isn't enough to cover your child for one year. It's not the poor mooching from the wealthy. It's parents of school aged children mooching from everyone who doesn't have school-aged children.
U.S. citizens are currently paying the lowest amount of taxes since the Truman administration. Quit complaining. You are probably the first to complain when you street is plowed immediately.
Actually, that's not true either. Federal taxation as a percentage of GDP is lowest since in the 1950s. But other taxes are much, much higher, and the federal tax burden is distributed among a smaller percentage of the population.
Tell you what, you give all your taxes to the government and get whatever benefit you can from it. I'll keep all my money except for a reasonable tax to fund the few things gov't is actually supposed to do and take care of the rest myself. I guarantee I would come out ahead if this dream were ever realized.
You'd be better off keeping education and giving up the military. Military spending takes up 1/5 of the federal budget. You spend way more on military, medicaid, and social security than you do on welfare and education.
HOLY SHIT! Just read the basics of the charter school legislation that passed. It bodes very very badly for public schools.
And I find it interesting that the CSB charter school board can now sponsor charter schools, guess whose wife is on that board...it rhymes with rennet. The CSB has gotten over 3.4 million dollars of state money in the past.
The current U.S. military is in nothing even remotely close to what the constitution permits. We could cut out 90% of military spending and we'd still have the most expensive military in the world.
51% of the parents can vote to turn a traditional school to a Charter? How do we start this process... I know I'm one parent who would vote yes... maybe if IPS loses a few schools to this someone will get the idea... GREAT addition to the bill!
My voice will be heard this June when I resign from IPS. I have signed a contract with another system and I am going to wait and then tell Eugene White to kiss my ass.
It's funny that no one mentions the real reasons behind the "reform" movement: Segregation. People like the nitwit who posted that there should not be public education won't admit it, but what they want is for all the poor minority people to go to one school, while they can separate their white children in another school. THAT is what will happen, and thst is, no doubt, a goal.
I am a proud graduate of a public school (North Central...interestingly, the same as the governor) and I am a white male...and even I can see the truth behind the movement.
I actually think you have it backwards. I think people who OPPOSE school choice (besides employees of the traditional school system) tend to be upper-middle class white people who don't want brown people or poor people going to their schools (private or public). So they pretend it's their superior parenting that keeps their schools great, and blame our prison-training facilities on brown parents and poor parents. Just ask poor people and brown people what they think of reform and school choice. They'll tell you.
"People like the nitwit who posted that there should not be public education won't admit it, but what they want is for all the poor minority people to go to one school, while they can separate their white children in another school. THAT is what will happen, and thst is, no doubt, a goal."
Total bullshit. You are a complete worthless piece of shit for trying to turn this into a race issue. My kids have been separated from the public school system at my own expense while I continued to pay taxes to support your abject failure. They have been at a school where ANYONE is welcome as long as they follow the rules.
"I actually think you have it backwards. I think people who OPPOSE school choice (besides employees of the traditional school system) tend to be upper-middle class white people who don't want brown people or poor people going to their schools (private or public). So they pretend it's their superior parenting that keeps their schools great, and blame our prison-training facilities on brown parents and poor parents. Just ask poor people and brown people what they think of reform and school choice. They'll tell you."
This was written by yet another worthless piece of shit. See above for the same response to your drivel.
@ Everybody who send their kid to public school is a welfare recipient.
You are absolutely incorrect on this. I am an IPS teacher and both of my children go to IPS schools. I am a single parent and I do struggle, however, I contribute to the education of those less fortunate than myself rather than drain the pennies from your pocket. Please be educated when you choose to speak.
No, you misunderstood. A poster was insinuating that only poor people take more out of the education system than they put in. I was pointing out that technically, everyone who has a child in public school is a welfare recipient because they are only paying half of their property tax toward education, and one year of public education for one child costs far more than that.
I'll say this again like I did on a previous topic. The elementary schools in IPS are doing better than ever; however, the BIG breakdown occurs when these students enter the IPS high schools.
I'm unsure what causes this academic/emotional/behaviorial breakdown, but reviewing elementary records on some of my high school students makes me think I'm not even reading about the same children. Is it the rush of hormones, is it gangs, is it too much freedom when in the neighborhood, is it social promotion finally catching up with them, is it all the class changing every 45-50 minutes, is it the huge building size, is it old fart teachers (both white and black), etc.? Help me out, please.
I completely disagree with the "parents" comment. When parents are the problem, it's obvious early on. When the school is the problem, the kids start out strong but then gradually get worse the longer kids are in school.
If IPS students would behave and follow all rules there would not be a need for reform or charters. IPS tolerates really bad behavior, the schools are a joke. Yet everyone blames teachers. The public is not aware of this because the behavior is ignored, dismissed, or hidden. Make no reports to the public. If a teacher has a student that bullies, steals, cheats, and fails then it is the teacher's fault according to IPS. I come prepared to teach the curriculum like a doctor is prepared to doctor a patient. If this patient is not respectful of the doctor's diagnosis and does not follow the doctor's recomendations the patient will continue to be sick. Is it the doctor's fault the patient continues to be sick? OR The patient's fault. IPS and the state blame the teachers and not the students. The kids I am talking about should not even be called students....thugs is a better word.
This whole argument about who pays and who benefits from public education is absurd. Everyone who pays property tax, either directly or indirectly is paying for education in Indiana. Also, everyone benefits from living in an educated society. We're heading toward a dangerous time if the gap gets too wide.
From my perspective, if you walk into an IPS high school and talk with students, parents, and teachers and then walk into one of the township schools or one of the donut county schools and talk to the students, parents, and teachers, you'll find the major difference is the teachers. Whether they're burned out, whether it's administration, whether they have home problems, I don't know. But there are too many IPS teachers who don't enjoy teaching, don't enjoy kids, don't believe in public education, and have really messed-up views about urban families. It's toxic for other teachers, it's toxic for parent-teacher rapport, and it's toxic for students.
I think it's a combination. IPS has more than our share of problem parents, problem students, problem teachers, and problem administrators. Teachers and administrators leave IPS for greener pastures every day. Why is it any different when parents and students want better?
There is a dual fault within IPS. Bad or absent parents are most certainly to blame for some IPS students behavior. Administrators who haven't got the faintest clue about common sense discipline practices are the other. Fact is many of our kids, even those we would consider good ones, were not raised with the same level of respect for adults, the police, the flag etc. So when high school administrators fail to provide a strong common sense discipline policy along with appropriate enforcement than more kids will break the rules (ie. uniforms, hoodies, tardies and so on..).
I think the problem is that many of our high achieving families pull their children out for high school. They will go through elementary or middle school but then they head to Cathedral, Chatard, Roncalli etc for high school. What is left are 10% of students who go to get an education and 90% of students who are marking time until they can drop out.
to dual fault within IPS......Kids break the rules because they want to. I am tired of hearing about the urban child problems. It is not up to a teacher to solve this urban problem and this is from a teacher that loves teaching. If a child comes to school with behavior problems ( these are severe too) ,the child needs to be removed from the class so others can learn and teachers can teach. IPS children may not be raised with the same level of respect so need to learn fast because that is how the world is organize for success. Maybe this expectation for students being raised with different levels of respect is wrong and racial and setting kids up for failure. Also when faced with crazy kids every day a teacher does get burned out. I am not trained to deal with kids that are not normal on the emotional scale. I am trained to deal with kids that are not on the normal ability range. These emotionally sick kids are a big population in IPS and they disrupt the learning time. Why are teachers blamed when these emotional sick kids are the majority in the classroom. IPS has the teacher make special discipline plans for these kids and of course these kids are so sick nothing works.These are not even the kids with IEPs. Teacher burnout , maybe if you deal with this kind of environment where people make excuses for bad behavior or sick emotional kids. Does this make me a toxic teacher. You are right ..I do not like kids that are emotionally sick . Why? They take learning time away from other kids and it is inhumane to subject kids to such children. Just think in a courtroom would "I do not have the same level of respect for authority like you do judge." be a good excuse. OR "I was an urban student.
"They have been at a school where ANYONE is welcome as long as they follow the rules. "
The rest of your response was really classy, by the way. I hope your kids are learning those same, fine manners at their current school.
And the public schools aren't given that option. The government officials (at all levels) that are calling for "reform" are the same people who keep placing more rules, more administrative BS, and more requirements to serve everyone, no matter what, that charter schools and private schools don't have. They can get rid of anyone "undesirable" for any reason.
Unless, of course, you can help the football team.
For general ed teachers at the high schools -- would your work in the classroom be more effective if special education students were in self-contained spec. ed. classes? As an inclusion teacher, I would prefer to have the special education students in my own classroom where 'special' would actually be put back into special education. No offense to gen ed teachers, but I would really rather have my own class, with my own students, and teach my students in the ways I choose.
It's a sticky situation, because I definitely agree that a significant portion of special ed students would do better in self-contained classes. The problem is that it was abused in the past, and all problem students were being shoved into those classes by the handful. But there has to be some happy medium, doesn't there?
People need to pick a side. Either teachers make a difference or they don't. If they don't, then they are overpaid babysitters. If they do make a difference, then we have to acknowledge that some are making a NEGATIVE difference. Blaming parents is lunacy unless the parents aren't sending them to school. Aside from that, you have 7 waking hours a day with nothing else to do but educate kids. Their parents don't have that. And the nonsense about "the parents say mean things about teachers, so kids don't respect me." That's utter bullshit. The kids don't respect the school and the teachers because they don't think it has anything to offer them. Suburban parents badmouth teachers too, but the kids are surrounded by people who got an education, so they see that as a given. Urban kids are often surrounded by people who are not formally educated, so the "necessity" is all abstract to them. Like someone telling us we need to learn Latin and cloth-making to make it in life, when everyone we know -- good or bad, rich or poor, legit or illegal -- is living their life without the knowledge of Latin or cloth-making. They're not born bad or stupid, their parents don't love them less. We're just not reaching them. And there are specific things that educators can do to reach them and make education relevant to them. And we should focus on that rather than the things we have no control over (like if mom is married or if dad drinks too much or if grandma called the teacher a poo-poo head).
"The rest of your response was really classy, by the way. I hope your kids are learning those same, fine manners at their current school."
The time for being "classy" about this crap is long past. Matters involving the education of my children are none of your damn business and that's exactly how I like it.
"And the public schools aren't given that option."
HELLO!!!!!!??? What the hell do you think I've been bitching about all this time? The fact that they don't have this option is why they fail. As long as they are "public", they will never have that option. This only reinforces my position regarding the elimination of public education.
I think your rant about teachers and not parents being the blame is over-simplistic and ignores the obstacles even the best of teachers face. But I think you are spot on with the need for education being abstract for many IPS students. I think Latin and cloth-making are excellent comparisons. The best teachers at IPS aren't the ones with the best parents. They're the ones who kids respect and admire. And NOBODY respects or admires ANYONE who looks down on them, either with judgment or condescension.
There's a saying about not feeding the trolls. I respect that people might be extremely libertarian. But to come on a specific forum for a specific school district and then post nothing about silliness about ending all public education... You're not looking for intelligent discussion. You're just being a troll. Wouldn't you provoke more of a response on the Star forums?
Are you crazy? If these reforms go through YOU will become a teacher in this NEWLY REFORMED era. You will learn to teach from scripted texts instead of using 21st Century technologies because there won't be money to get those things. The clock will dictates how long you teach what, not students. You will teach 30-40 children in a class, half with social, emotional or behavior abnormalities and be expected to get excellent results. You will teach in a dog eat dog atmosphere where teachers are pitted against teachers, collegiality is unheard of, and children with "problems" are shunned because one low test score might be the difference between you or the teacher next door keeping a job. You will never have a say about your working conditions or pay. You will take what little is given and be happy with little prep time. You will stay after the teacher day 5 days a week to study data if told. You will work sick or be fired because your sick days will be cut to save money. AND YOU WON'T DO MUCH TEACHING! These "reforms" will require you to test students so often your head will spin. WELCOME TO THE NEWLY REFORMED WORLD OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.
To the person above who thinks the majority of IPS students are emotionally sick; otherwise they'd worship him/her as the pillar of wisdom he/she is. If working with urban kids isn't your thing, why not go elsewhere. If nobody else will hire you, maybe consider another line of work. But throwing a fit about a job you hate with kids you hate and screaming that the solution is that these kids need to realize they suck and try to be more like you --- you HAVE to realize how screwed up that is. Anyone with an IQ of 75 would be able to read your post and see why you're ineffective. The kids aren't defective. You are defective. I teach the same kids you do, and they're absolutely normal kids. I've never had a discipline problem in my classroom from someone without an IEP (and even then, they are few and far between). Why do you think that is? Why do you think the same kids that are smart and respectful in my class are lazy and crazy in yours? People can criticize education reform all they want, but I would take a longer schedule and a significant pay cut to be rid of the toxic teachers who have been allowed to destroy generations of kids with their ignorance and incompetence.
@Go ahead and show me where you read that. Which of the current reforms will do this?
Good question. We both know the answer. The current reforms do NOT mention anything like the ranting poster @"Are you crazy?" is using to scare people. Nothing but pure union drivel and union scare tactics.
No. I just posted in the other thread, but I actually support most of the reforms. I can understand why veteran teachers are opposed, but I'm not a veteran teacher, and I'm not opposed.
ReplyDeleteNo, Mitch has decided to destroy public education in Indiana and he now has the votes in the legislature to do it. No one is listening.
ReplyDeleteSchool reform is just another way of saying union busting.
ReplyDeleteTo the person who thinks this is about Mitch, are you following current events at all? This is a national, bipartisan movement. Whether you agree or disagree with the specific initiatives, framing them as something unique to Mitch Daniels, Indiana, or republicans is just silly.
ReplyDeleteWhen the reforms include taking away collective bargaining rights there is a problem.
ReplyDelete@To the person who thinks this is about Mitch
ReplyDeleteAmen to your post! If we in IPS would open our eyes and ears and pay attention to what's going on with education beyond the boundaries of our little world, then we'd all realize that educational reform is absolutely and totally bi-partisan. President Obama campaigned with education reform as one of his planks; Arne Duncan, Sec. of Education, has dictated that 'caps be removed from the number of charter schools allowed' in order to receive Race to the Top funds. What is currently happening is not a Mitch Daniels or a Republican idea; it's a national, bi-partisan idea. We sound so small and narrow when we think educational reform is only on the plate here in Indiana to punish us. Read a good newspaper occasionally or even Time magazine. Educate yourself before making shallow remarks. Better yet, organize a big national rally in front of the White House!
@When the reforms include taking away collective bargaining rights there is a problem.
ReplyDeleteThe way a lot of taxpayers view collective bargaining is that if we are teachers in a school district where only 50% of the students graduate with a high school diploma, then we don't have a lot of performance leverage to bargain for much of anything, other than perhaps mercy. Yes, I am a classroom teacher with IPS on my lunch break, and no, I will not be going to any rally and make a fool of myself before taxpayers.
"Bargaining rights." Rights. That term is 100 accurate. Workers having rights to bargain collectively translates into personal freedom. No rights to organize and bargain: freedom limited/restricted. I don't care if it's Obama or Daniels perpetrating efforts to limit this freedom, they are wrong.
ReplyDeleteBefore trade unions gained strength in America in the early 1900s, most workers were required to be on the job six days a week, 10 hours a day. I predict teaching is headed in this direction.
At this point, the "reformers" will chime in: "But this is about the kids, not the manufacture of products in an industry."
It is about kids. How effective is a teacher going to be who can't pay his/her mortgage/electric bill/car payment, etc.? How effective is a teacher going to be who is required to jump through even more bureaucratic hoops than are already required? How effective is a teacher going to be when he/she sees incompetent administrators/"coaches", etc. have even greater control over the teacher's professional fate? How effective is a teacher going to be when it's even more "all about the test scores?"
The truth is that high school graduates will keep going to college to major in education. This is because they really want to make a career of teaching young people. But after 2-3 years in the "trenches," they will head out for greener pastures (I read recently that the average young teacher currently stays in the profession for only five years).
I can't make it to the rally, but I hope there is a good turnout. If these proposed measures go through the Legislature as they are, the future will be bleak for all Indiana teachers. And, I believe, for the future of education in this state.
It's time that teachers stand up for themselves and refuse to be made the villains of education by self-serving politicians - and self-serving newspaper columnists who write against teachers unions while working in a union shop (newspaper Guild) themselves.
Re: "bargaining rights"
ReplyDeleteso true...You are the teacher the politicians and the public need to hear.
Too bad you could not rally today. Bravo again.
Did you hear about the deal struck between the A.D.s, the IPS Police Chief, and Victor Bush. They are going to pay IMPD Officers to work athletic events and force IPS Officers to flex their hours to assist the IMPD Officers. So much for providing police coverage for the building during the school days.
ReplyDeleteRe: Did you hear about the deal struck between the A.D.s, the IPS Police Chief, and Victor Bush.
ReplyDeleteJust another reason why IPS is wasting/mismanaging taxpayers' money that is meant for instruction, not for crowd management during a ball game.
The rally won't make a difference. It's really a very small but vocal minority of the population who is against these reforms. Yes, a good portion of teachers are against them, but teachers are a small percentage of voters, and even teachers are divided on this. I'm still in school to become a teacher, but I really hope these reforms go through. We can't prepare children for the 21st century if we're stuck 19th century school systems.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could be there too, but not on the side of public education. My idea of "reform" involves a whole lot more than a few vouchers. It involves removing government from education completely. The entire department of education has no basis whatsoever in the Constitution. This along with all other forms of government forced income redistribution (AKA theft) are the primary reason for the downfall of this country. It has created generations of pathetic sheep who think their well being is someone Else's responsibility. Well over 40% of people in this country pay no taxes at all and survive solely off the taxes unjustly collected from others. The vast majority of these parasites are the same people wasting our money in public education. This is an unsustainable spiral of failure that will only get worse. We've reached a point in our society where if all this government babysitting were suddenly removed forcing people to actually support themselves, we'd likely experience near anarchy. It's hard to tell what would be worse, but I think I'd rather take my chances relying on myself rather than the government.
ReplyDeleteNow go ahead and call me all the names you want. It only proves you are on the side of those too weak live without a safety net.
Your viewpoint doesn't even make sense (which several people told you the last time you posted.) Poor people aren't who would throw a fit if we stopped funding public education. They benefit very little from it and would do better under your proposed system because companies would have to educate their own employees. It's middle-class and wealthy people who benefit from public funding of education. Middle class people receive expensive education for their children without having to pay for it, and wealthy people receive moderately-educated middle-class employees without having to pay to educate them. Poor people don't benefit from public education. They end up working retail and manual labor jobs that require very little of what public schools are selling.
ReplyDeleteYou're also wrong about your 40% statistic. That statistic only applies to federal income tax, not other types of taxation.
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of the school reform ideas. Teachers should be help accountable and not kept around because of their seniority. There are too many safe teachers in IPS that need to be called out. The charter school concept will start out crazy. After some time parents will realize the charter schools aren't all they are cracked up to be.
ReplyDelete@Now go ahead and call me all the names you want.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to call you any name, other than smart and candid. Nothing wrong with being either one. Currently, we are taxed to the hilt in the US. We've spent money on education like there's no tomorrow; however, tomorrow is here. There is no more money.
Smart and candid. Yeah, those were the first words that came to my mind, lol.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, dude, what kind of nation has NO education funding? Why not just move to Somalia?
So you all will not mind if the government gives me my money back that would be used for public education? That way I can pay for a private education for my child.
ReplyDeleteLOL, not even close. You'd get back half of your property tax. That'll buy you about three weeks at a prep school or a little over two months at a primary parochial school. For one child.
ReplyDeleteEverybody who send their kid to public school is a welfare recipient. Even if you are filthy rich and live in a 2-million dollar house, in Indiana, you'd still only pay 10,000 a year toward public education, which isn't enough to cover your child for one year. It's not the poor mooching from the wealthy. It's parents of school aged children mooching from everyone who doesn't have school-aged children.
ReplyDeleteU.S. citizens are currently paying the lowest amount of taxes since the Truman administration. Quit complaining. You are probably the first to complain when you street is plowed immediately.
ReplyDeleteActually, that's not true either. Federal taxation as a percentage of GDP is lowest since in the 1950s. But other taxes are much, much higher, and the federal tax burden is distributed among a smaller percentage of the population.
ReplyDeleteTell you what, you give all your taxes to the government and get whatever benefit you can from it. I'll keep all my money except for a reasonable tax to fund the few things gov't is actually supposed to do and take care of the rest myself. I guarantee I would come out ahead if this dream were ever realized.
ReplyDeleteYou'd be better off keeping education and giving up the military. Military spending takes up 1/5 of the federal budget. You spend way more on military, medicaid, and social security than you do on welfare and education.
ReplyDeleteHOLY SHIT! Just read the basics of the charter school legislation that passed. It bodes very very badly for public schools.
ReplyDeleteAnd I find it interesting that the CSB charter school board can now sponsor charter schools, guess whose wife is on that board...it rhymes with rennet.
The CSB has gotten over 3.4 million dollars of state money in the past.
Scar-eeee!
Medicaid and social security SHOULD be completely eliminated. The military however, is actually one of the proper functions of government.
ReplyDeleteThe IPS police chief licks the nut sack!!!! And like's it.
ReplyDeleteThe current U.S. military is in nothing even remotely close to what the constitution permits. We could cut out 90% of military spending and we'd still have the most expensive military in the world.
ReplyDelete51% of the parents can vote to turn a traditional school to a Charter? How do we start this process... I know I'm one parent who would vote yes... maybe if IPS loses a few schools to this someone will get the idea... GREAT addition to the bill!
ReplyDelete@IPS Police Chief
ReplyDeleteDo you know this because it was your own sack reaping the benefit?
@51% of the parents can vote to turn a traditional school to a Charter?
ReplyDeleteYes, it's called a Conversion Charter. Directions/steps are outlined on the IN Dept. of Education website.
My voice will be heard this June when I resign from IPS. I have signed a contract with another system and I am going to wait and then tell Eugene White to kiss my ass.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny that no one mentions the real reasons behind the "reform" movement: Segregation. People like the nitwit who posted that there should not be public education won't admit it, but what they want is for all the poor minority people to go to one school, while they can separate their white children in another school. THAT is what will happen, and thst is, no doubt, a goal.
ReplyDeleteI am a proud graduate of a public school (North Central...interestingly, the same as the governor) and I am a white male...and even I can see the truth behind the movement.
I actually think you have it backwards. I think people who OPPOSE school choice (besides employees of the traditional school system) tend to be upper-middle class white people who don't want brown people or poor people going to their schools (private or public). So they pretend it's their superior parenting that keeps their schools great, and blame our prison-training facilities on brown parents and poor parents. Just ask poor people and brown people what they think of reform and school choice. They'll tell you.
ReplyDeleteHow do poor people (term used in above post) view school reform and school choice? Since it was mentioned above, I am interested to hear.
ReplyDeleteThey view it as an escape route out of a gas chamber. The difference between their child going to college or prison.
ReplyDelete"People like the nitwit who posted that there should not be public education won't admit it, but what they want is for all the poor minority people to go to one school, while they can separate their white children in another school. THAT is what will happen, and thst is, no doubt, a goal."
ReplyDeleteTotal bullshit. You are a complete worthless piece of shit for trying to turn this into a race issue. My kids have been separated from the public school system at my own expense while I continued to pay taxes to support your abject failure. They have been at a school where ANYONE is welcome as long as they follow the rules.
"I actually think you have it backwards. I think people who OPPOSE school choice (besides employees of the traditional school system) tend to be upper-middle class white people who don't want brown people or poor people going to their schools (private or public). So they pretend it's their superior parenting that keeps their schools great, and blame our prison-training facilities on brown parents and poor parents. Just ask poor people and brown people what they think of reform and school choice. They'll tell you."
This was written by yet another worthless piece of shit. See above for the same response to your drivel.
@ Everybody who send their kid to public school is a welfare recipient.
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely incorrect on this. I am an IPS teacher and both of my children go to IPS schools. I am a single parent and I do struggle, however, I contribute to the education of those less fortunate than myself rather than drain the pennies from your pocket. Please be educated when you choose to speak.
No, you misunderstood. A poster was insinuating that only poor people take more out of the education system than they put in. I was pointing out that technically, everyone who has a child in public school is a welfare recipient because they are only paying half of their property tax toward education, and one year of public education for one child costs far more than that.
ReplyDeleteI'll say this again like I did on a previous topic. The elementary schools in IPS are doing better than ever; however, the BIG breakdown occurs when these students enter the IPS high schools.
ReplyDeleteI'm unsure what causes this academic/emotional/behaviorial breakdown, but reviewing elementary records on some of my high school students makes me think I'm not even reading about the same children. Is it the rush of hormones, is it gangs, is it too much freedom when in the neighborhood, is it social promotion finally catching up with them, is it all the class changing every 45-50 minutes, is it the huge building size, is it old fart teachers (both white and black), etc.? Help me out, please.
One word...PARENTS.
ReplyDeleteI completely disagree with the "parents" comment. When parents are the problem, it's obvious early on. When the school is the problem, the kids start out strong but then gradually get worse the longer kids are in school.
ReplyDeleteIf IPS students would behave and follow all rules there would not be a need for reform or charters. IPS tolerates really bad behavior, the schools are a joke. Yet everyone blames teachers.
ReplyDeleteThe public is not aware of this because the behavior is ignored, dismissed, or hidden. Make no reports to the public. If a teacher has a student that bullies, steals, cheats, and fails then it is the teacher's fault according to IPS. I come prepared to teach the curriculum like a doctor is prepared to doctor a patient. If this patient is not respectful of the doctor's diagnosis and does not follow the doctor's recomendations the patient will continue to be sick. Is it the doctor's fault the patient continues to be sick? OR The patient's fault.
IPS and the state blame the teachers and not the students. The kids I am talking about should not even be called students....thugs is a better word.
This whole argument about who pays and who benefits from public education is absurd. Everyone who pays property tax, either directly or indirectly is paying for education in Indiana. Also, everyone benefits from living in an educated society. We're heading toward a dangerous time if the gap gets too wide.
ReplyDeleteFrom my perspective, if you walk into an IPS high school and talk with students, parents, and teachers and then walk into one of the township schools or one of the donut county schools and talk to the students, parents, and teachers, you'll find the major difference is the teachers. Whether they're burned out, whether it's administration, whether they have home problems, I don't know. But there are too many IPS teachers who don't enjoy teaching, don't enjoy kids, don't believe in public education, and have really messed-up views about urban families. It's toxic for other teachers, it's toxic for parent-teacher rapport, and it's toxic for students.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a combination. IPS has more than our share of problem parents, problem students, problem teachers, and problem administrators. Teachers and administrators leave IPS for greener pastures every day. Why is it any different when parents and students want better?
ReplyDeleteThere is a dual fault within IPS. Bad or absent parents are most certainly to blame for some IPS students behavior. Administrators who haven't got the faintest clue about common sense discipline practices are the other. Fact is many of our kids, even those we would consider good ones, were not raised with the same level of respect for adults, the police, the flag etc. So when high school administrators fail to provide a strong common sense discipline policy along with appropriate enforcement than more kids will break the rules (ie. uniforms, hoodies, tardies and so on..).
ReplyDeleteI think the problem is that many of our high achieving families pull their children out for high school. They will go through elementary or middle school but then they head to Cathedral, Chatard, Roncalli etc for high school. What is left are 10% of students who go to get an education and 90% of students who are marking time until they can drop out.
ReplyDeleteto dual fault within IPS......Kids break the rules because they want to. I am tired of hearing about the urban child problems. It is not up to a teacher to solve this urban problem and this is from a teacher that loves teaching. If a child comes to school with behavior problems ( these are severe too) ,the child needs to be removed from the class so others can learn and teachers can teach. IPS children may not be raised with the same level of respect so need to learn fast because that is how the world is organize for success. Maybe this expectation for students being raised with different levels of respect is wrong and racial and setting kids up for failure. Also when faced with crazy kids every day a teacher does get burned out. I am not trained to deal with kids that are not normal on the emotional scale. I am trained to deal with kids that are not on the normal ability range. These emotionally sick kids are a big population in IPS and they disrupt the learning time. Why are teachers blamed when these emotional sick kids are the majority in the classroom. IPS has the teacher make special discipline plans for these kids and of course these kids are so sick nothing works.These are not even the kids with IEPs. Teacher burnout , maybe if you deal with this kind of environment where people make excuses for bad behavior or sick emotional kids. Does this make me a toxic teacher. You are right ..I do not like kids that are emotionally sick . Why? They take learning time away from other kids and it is inhumane to subject kids to such children. Just think in a courtroom would "I do not have the same level of respect for authority like you do judge." be a good excuse. OR "I was an urban student.
ReplyDelete"They have been at a school where ANYONE is welcome as long as they follow the rules. "
ReplyDeleteThe rest of your response was really classy, by the way. I hope your kids are learning those same, fine manners at their current school.
And the public schools aren't given that option. The government officials (at all levels) that are calling for "reform" are the same people who keep placing more rules, more administrative BS, and more requirements to serve everyone, no matter what, that charter schools and private schools don't have. They can get rid of anyone "undesirable" for any reason.
Unless, of course, you can help the football team.
For general ed teachers at the high schools -- would your work in the classroom be more effective if special education students were in self-contained spec. ed. classes? As an inclusion teacher, I would prefer to have the special education students in my own classroom where 'special' would actually be put back into special education. No offense to gen ed teachers, but I would really rather have my own class, with my own students, and teach my students in the ways I choose.
ReplyDeleteIt's a sticky situation, because I definitely agree that a significant portion of special ed students would do better in self-contained classes. The problem is that it was abused in the past, and all problem students were being shoved into those classes by the handful. But there has to be some happy medium, doesn't there?
ReplyDeletePeople need to pick a side. Either teachers make a difference or they don't. If they don't, then they are overpaid babysitters. If they do make a difference, then we have to acknowledge that some are making a NEGATIVE difference. Blaming parents is lunacy unless the parents aren't sending them to school. Aside from that, you have 7 waking hours a day with nothing else to do but educate kids. Their parents don't have that. And the nonsense about "the parents say mean things about teachers, so kids don't respect me." That's utter bullshit. The kids don't respect the school and the teachers because they don't think it has anything to offer them. Suburban parents badmouth teachers too, but the kids are surrounded by people who got an education, so they see that as a given. Urban kids are often surrounded by people who are not formally educated, so the "necessity" is all abstract to them. Like someone telling us we need to learn Latin and cloth-making to make it in life, when everyone we know -- good or bad, rich or poor, legit or illegal -- is living their life without the knowledge of Latin or cloth-making. They're not born bad or stupid, their parents don't love them less. We're just not reaching them. And there are specific things that educators can do to reach them and make education relevant to them. And we should focus on that rather than the things we have no control over (like if mom is married or if dad drinks too much or if grandma called the teacher a poo-poo head).
ReplyDelete"The rest of your response was really classy, by the way. I hope your kids are learning those same, fine manners at their current school."
ReplyDeleteThe time for being "classy" about this crap is long past. Matters involving the education of my children are none of your damn business and that's exactly how I like it.
"And the public schools aren't given that option."
HELLO!!!!!!??? What the hell do you think I've been bitching about all this time? The fact that they don't have this option is why they fail. As long as they are "public", they will never have that option. This only reinforces my position regarding the elimination of public education.
I think your rant about teachers and not parents being the blame is over-simplistic and ignores the obstacles even the best of teachers face. But I think you are spot on with the need for education being abstract for many IPS students. I think Latin and cloth-making are excellent comparisons. The best teachers at IPS aren't the ones with the best parents. They're the ones who kids respect and admire. And NOBODY respects or admires ANYONE who looks down on them, either with judgment or condescension.
ReplyDeleteMy post, "I think your rant" was directed to "People need to pick a side" not the post directly above mine.
ReplyDeleteThere's a saying about not feeding the trolls. I respect that people might be extremely libertarian. But to come on a specific forum for a specific school district and then post nothing about silliness about ending all public education... You're not looking for intelligent discussion. You're just being a troll. Wouldn't you provoke more of a response on the Star forums?
ReplyDeleteSo you talk about not feeding the trolls, and then you feed him! lol
ReplyDeleteDo as i say, not as I do.
ReplyDelete<>
ReplyDeleteAre you crazy? If these reforms go through YOU will become a teacher in this NEWLY REFORMED era. You will learn to teach from scripted texts instead of using 21st Century technologies because there won't be money to get those things. The clock will dictates how long you teach what, not students. You will teach 30-40 children in a class, half with social, emotional or behavior abnormalities and be expected to get excellent results. You will teach in a dog eat dog atmosphere where teachers are pitted against teachers, collegiality is unheard of, and children with "problems" are shunned because one low test score might be the difference between you or the teacher next door keeping a job. You will never have a say about your working conditions or pay. You will take what little is given and be happy with little prep time. You will stay after the teacher day 5 days a week to study data if told. You will work sick or be fired because your sick days will be cut to save money. AND YOU WON'T DO MUCH TEACHING! These "reforms" will require you to test students so often your head will spin. WELCOME TO THE NEWLY REFORMED WORLD OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.
Go ahead and show me where you read that. Which of the current reforms will do this?
ReplyDeleteTo the person above who thinks the majority of IPS students are emotionally sick; otherwise they'd worship him/her as the pillar of wisdom he/she is. If working with urban kids isn't your thing, why not go elsewhere. If nobody else will hire you, maybe consider another line of work. But throwing a fit about a job you hate with kids you hate and screaming that the solution is that these kids need to realize they suck and try to be more like you --- you HAVE to realize how screwed up that is. Anyone with an IQ of 75 would be able to read your post and see why you're ineffective. The kids aren't defective. You are defective. I teach the same kids you do, and they're absolutely normal kids. I've never had a discipline problem in my classroom from someone without an IEP (and even then, they are few and far between). Why do you think that is? Why do you think the same kids that are smart and respectful in my class are lazy and crazy in yours? People can criticize education reform all they want, but I would take a longer schedule and a significant pay cut to be rid of the toxic teachers who have been allowed to destroy generations of kids with their ignorance and incompetence.
ReplyDelete@Go ahead and show me where you read that. Which of the current reforms will do this?
ReplyDeleteGood question. We both know the answer. The current reforms do NOT mention anything like the ranting poster @"Are you crazy?" is using to scare people. Nothing but pure union drivel and union scare tactics.