1. Cut half of administration. Even if they are all competent, which they are not, IPS is top-heavy. 2. Get rid of teaching coaches and the teachers who need them. 3. Get rid of teachers who don't like brown people, poor people, and/or kids today in general. 4. Get rid of the dress code, except in alternative schools. 5. Develop a 10-day limit attendance policy like other schools have. If students reach the limit, they are transferred to alternative schools. 6. Transfer major or recurrent discipline problems to alternative schools. 7. Encourage parental input, even if it's criticism. Treat parents like they would be treated if they were outside of the district. 8. Encourage differentiation instruction. It's almost nonexistent in IPS. 9. In secondary ed, expand AP options, dual credit-courses, as well as reinstitute trade programs.
Even if 80% of IPS ended up being alternative schools (which I don't believe they would), this would ensure that living in the IPS district wouldn't automatically sentence you to a bad school. The boundary schools need to be run like good schools with kind, competent teachers, and the expectation of well-behaved, high-achieving students. The problems need to be treated like the exception. As it stands, IPS is run like a mini-prison, and that negatively impacts every facet of the district.
Wow, that first post is rather negative. I don't know where you work but at my school the teachers like each other, the children and their parents.
My suggestion is to stop giving all the administration phony promotions and raises. Eliminate many of the ed center positions, we seriously don't need that many people, nor do they need TWO secretaries. Put that money into staff for schools. Low class sizes and a low tolerance policy for misbehavior would go a long way toward letting teachers teach. Disruptive students need to be removed, so the students who are trying to learn can learn.
Definitely reinstate trades. Not every child needs to go to college. Every child is different. The important thing is to develop a work ethic. Get a job, do you job well, don't call in sick all the time, be on time. Then society thrives.
Get rid of a large number of the high paying, do nothing administrative jobs. Get rid of the made up jobs for relatives of Eugene White and his other administrators who have sons, daughters, brothers and sisters being paid outrageous amounts of money for doing nothing except being related to the right person.
Let me walk around the Education Center for one wekk, we would "pink slip" half the staff, and then send them into alternative classes, yes lets see which township system would go after Bridgewaters, Greenwood, Scruggs, and Kendricks? Not one. Then after their notice is follow to the letter of the law, fire them.
I love my school too, my students, my parents and my principal. I'd get rid of Dibels testing, Benchmarks and whatever keeps those downtown people employed.All principals should be like our principal. 111 to 12 hour days and greeting everyone with a smile EVERY day no matter what.I hate the fact that many of our kids are being retained. Most of it is due to laziness. The curriculum requirements are what they are and if they don't meet it then retention is the ONLY forceful thing we can do. We are getting kids from the charters that are behind right before ISTEP PLUS the parents tell us that the charter didn't give out homework. Seems that was a "selling point" at the beginning of the year. They gave them some bogus report on how "Homework doesn't help kids learn" Shoot, many of OUR parents would jump at that if they knew they DID NOT have to help with their child's homework every night. Who creates these phony reports? McGraw Hill?
There are all kinds of studies that show that homework doesn't help kids learn. At IU they are teaching teachers not to give homework, based on all the studies. So it's not something charter schools are making up. Also, you want to do away with benchmarks? Really, this is your idea of reform? Just stop collecting data. Then we'll be fine, lol?
Don't argue with this person. She makes up things about charter schools and then posts them here and on the star forums. It's amazing that this teacher sees all these kids coming from charter schools when all the data (as you can see, she's not a fan of data) shows that it's the other way around.
These are areas I would like hear others' thoughts on: 1. Use Title money to fund 18 weeks of Pre-K for 4 year olds to jump start kindergarten. 2. Hire floating secretaries to do the principal's paperwork that Title teachers do. 3. Require all district administrators to do an FMLA sub postition for at least 4 weeks once every 2 years. 4. Train principals in Human Resource issues. 5. Have principals meet with low performing teachers 3x a week to help them improve or help them out the door. 6. Force administrators to lead by example. If you want incompetent teachers fired, fire incompetent administrators. If you want principals to walk the buildings, district people should walk the buildings and call teachers and custodial staff by name. 8. Use Title money at the high school to fund Vocational Ed. 9. Put coaches back in the classroom. 10. Get serious about science instruction.
"Require all district administrators to do an FMLA sub postition for at least 4 weeks once every 2 years."
Before joining IPS, I taught for 20+ years in a large school district (85,000 students), and the top-level central office administrators (superintendent, asst. supers, directors, etc.) were required in their contracts to substitute teach two days per year in a classroom in their area of certification. The superintendent was certified as an English (9-12) teacher, and he did a fantastic job with Shakespeare. It worked!
I'd love to see that happen in IPS -- not as punishment, but a part of the administrators' contracts.
To the teacher who gives homework that kids can't do on their own (you said parents must help out with it), don't you think you're setting yourself up for failure that way? Either parents don't know how to do it, do know how but can't explain it to their kids, or they teach their kids some alternative way the parents learned in school that completely confuses the kid when I want them to do it differently. I very rarely assign homework, only as a consequence for not accomplishing the day's lesson during class time.
Go back to neighborhood schools, invite parents in, fire all the Ed center folks by actually implementing SBDM, sell Walnut St site and give money to athletic programs.
I didn't mean as a punishment. I would have called it punishment. I meant a consequence. If it doesn't get done in class, then they'll have to take it home. That's exactly the way it works in the real world. Nobody assigns me work that has to be done at home. But I take home whatever doesn't get done at school.
Expand on your thoughts. Let's say you have your neighborhood schools and your school-based decision making. What decisions are you going to make that is going to reform things?
Are the people recommending the return of neighborhood schools really trying to promote ideas to reform public education, or merely longing to return to the "good old days" when we didn't think too much about such things.
1. Kids of poverty come to us 2 years behind, at least that used to be the thinking. Boys maybe even more depending always on the birthdate. With no preschool and little or no home teaching, retain more in Kdg. and 1st, 2nd if necessary if they've gotten that far and need it. Teachers send kids on for two reasons. First they (teachers) feel the look "BAD" if they retain because the kids should've "gotten it "and they must not have done their impossible job progressing them developmentally. Secondly, IPS makes it so difficult and tedious with paperwork, etc. that teachers who are already overdone just can't bother with it all. I'm surprised no one has been deemed "retention specialist" to walk around with a clipboard. That just might be helpful. 2. Cut the data crap. Enough. Who is it really helping? 3. Put the Governor, Super of Public Instruction, and Super Gene in charge of a classroom for a week. Their choice. 4. Get the testing companies and DOE people who write the tests off the pedestal. Some of their questions on these tests are downright stupid and don't even fit the experiences of the children we are putting " first. " 5. Put more funded worthwhile afterschool activities in public school facilities. Give these kids something to do. In Indianapolis if a parent isn't a driving force behind doing this and we know many can't and aren't, they don't have a chance. It all boils down to a social problem.
To the people who think that things will be better if we simply stop tracking data -- isn't that a lot like White thinking things will be better if we just don't ask questions or keep track of where things are spent?
1. I love the idea a few posts up suggesting Title 1 funds go to Vocational Education ( and not to luncheons at the Riverwalk) 2. Administrators should do a walkthrough of every teacher's classroom at least once a month. 3. Stop paying INSAI and allow schools to use their own school improvement plans devised by the building teachers. 4. We need 1 superintendant, 2 deputy superintendants,; we need One director of transportation, One director for Title 1, One director for facilities maintenance,One school police chief,One Human Resource director, One school & community/public relations person---everybody else needs to go! No more directors, coaches-instructional, Springboard, literacy, etc. If they are such experts, then their expertise is actually needed in the classroom. Think of the millions os savings right here! 5. Return to Heads of Departments that report directly to a deputy superintendant. 6. I think a 10 day absence limit is great, along with a three time suspension limit. 7. Every school needs an athletic program and an afterschool program of electives that deal with practical life skills. ( For instance learning to cook, sew, etc. Kids have brought me bags of clothes from home to sew for them because many can not thread a needle.)
Re: First post: "8. Encourage differentiation instruction. It's almost nonexistent in IPS."
The reality is to be effective, all instruction has to be differentiated. Another reality is that we have a lot of teachers who still subscribe to the "one size fits all" approach. Obviously that is not working. It is easy to understand why people think that way. That approach worked for them.
Perhaps we should develop an IEP for every student. So many of our students are so low and so far behind that we must develop a plan to get them up to grade level.
In the "good old days" when we had neighborhood schools students learned. They had to walk to school ( exercise), listen to the teacher ( there were consequences...not a pat on the back) and no ISTEP. Teachers were able to teach and teach they did. Students were taught respect for others, empathy, and just plain getting along with each other. No Supertendant at the state level telling teachers how to teach and what was good for the children. And guess what? They learned!
What do you do when a student has missed 10 days? Suspend them?? It makes to no sense to suspend a student for not coming to school. Throw them out of school and keep them uneducated. Poor attendance is a major problem in IPS but I don't know of any solutions to it other than putting the parents in jail.
I am not being nostalgic. Seriously, when parents are closer to where their kids are they show up. What it means for reform is that accountability rises for everyone involved, period.
I am not a teacher, just someone who has been around a long time and remembers when the way the U.S. educated students was working. I feel that the following changes should be thought about by the existing administrators from Elementary through Grade 12.
1. Have 2 levels of high school education. If a student wants to earn a vocational diploma they would enroll for a Level I diploma. They would be taught Writing, Reading, Comprehension in L.A. for two years. They would be taught Basic Math skills. Most of the time would be spent in subjects related to their chosen field or in an internship. When students graduate from Level I they will be able to go into the workforce with marketable skills. 2. Level II it would be for students who wish to go on to college. This student would take the necessary classes to enter the higher level of education needed for the subject they are wanting to learn. 3. Tests would be given at the 8th grade level to decide which Level a student is best suited for, but a student is never made to take a certain level. They might start at level one as a 9th grader, but decide that they really want a Level 2 Diploma.
We all know that all people are different and learn at different levels. Why try to force all students into the same mold; we all know this is not working and will never work.
If we need educational reform, then let's reform education in the right way.
What's the difference between a neighborhood school and a regular boundary school? Do you mean get rid of the magnet programs? If so, that seems illogical.
Schools were not better in the past. They were the same. That's the whole problem. Other countries have drastically improved their education programs, and we're getting the same results as we were 100 years ago.
Wow, the above article is inspiring. It goes to show a) how much improvement is really possible and b) what good leadership can accomplish! Kudos to them!
I haven't come across that in all my years at IPS (and I'm white, so I'd notice if people didn't like me), but obviously anyone who doesn't like an entire race or culture has no business in IPS.
I'm white and when I started at School 27 I noticed a distinct hostility from the black staff members. And I'll never forget the student who told me, "My mama say I don't have to listen to yawl white teachers". I have worked in 13 schools 12, in IPS and that was the first time I've ever experienced that.
Of course the principal there was FREAKIN' INSANE and I chose to transfer out.
Maybe with the new CFI or whatever is going there it will help. That place was sick(as in ill)
We need to expell students who missed more than ten days unexcussed, only after ADM just like the townships school do every year. I had a student who lived in Washington Township, and he lied to attend BRHS, just to roam the hallways and shoot dice. His mother could of care less if he finished high school, now both are in prison? What a proud mother, both of her babies, and daddy are locked up.
If you don't think township schools tell parents to lie about addresses so their child can go to IPS, you are REALLY out of touch. It usually goes like this. We are going to have your son/daughter arrested/expelled or do you have a relative in IPS who you could use to transfer your child. This way it does not show up in their data as an arrest or expulsion. Anyone who has worked in IPS knows this.
Okay, but how come these students (from other townships, from the charter schools, etc.) never show up in the IPS numbers. Coming after ADM would make sense for one year, but not the next. IPS enrollment is declining. Rapidly. If kids are sneaking into IPS they are doing so at a slower rate than the people who are leaving IPS.
I've worked at IPS for almost 15 years, and I have never witnessed half of the things you describe. I don't think you even work in IPS. I think you make up stories based on stereotypes and rumors. I wouldn't want to work with you, and I wouldn't want you to teach my child.
I'm an IPS teacher, and while I've seen some disturbing things, I hate how some of the people here portray it as the norm, when it's not. The far majority of my kids and parents are just like any other kid or parent from any other district. When we treat IPS families like they are different, they resent us and rightly so. I wouldn't put my name on a paper for someone who thought they were better than me. Would you?
I agree. Parents, students, poverty, etc. are the reason we can't compete with Hamilton County. They are not the reason we can't compete with the township schools. Until IPS gets the same results as the townships, there is room for improvement/reform.
I love how when someone posts something, someone disagrees with, they automatically accuse them of lying. Personally I only report on things that have actually happened to me.
You know it's perfectly acceptable to disagree with things people say, without getting on your high horse. you should try it sometime.
Before we teachers get too cozy with believing that the ISTA or the IEA can protect us from making demands for working conditions or other agenda items that do not lead directly toward assisting in the raising of students' levels of achievement, let's not forget August, 1981, when Ronald Reagan fired 11,000 federally employed union air traffic controllers whose union was a total roadblock to the airways.
"... She makes up things about charter schools and then posts them here and on the star forums. It's amazing that this teacher sees all these kids coming from charter schools when all the data (as you can see, she's not a fan of data) shows that it's the other way around."
Yeah those negative things about charters is MADE up... the anti-IPS stuff is what's made up.
Bennett makes sense to me. It's funny because when you turn on the news, they make it look like all teachers are anti-reform and anti-Bennett, anti-Mitch Daniels, etc. But the majority of teachers I know support school reform and charter schools to some degree or another.
Anti-choice people want to group all traditional schools with the good ones (the best schools are traditional schools, so we don't need choice) and want to group all charter schools with the bad ones (some of the charter schools aren't better, so all charter schools should be shut down). The obvious answer is to close bad schools (traditional or charter) and leave good schools open (traditional or charter). What's so radical about that?
Re: data overload. There are two ways to make sure government programs (like public education) are doing what they should. Constantly measuring and collecting data and comparing to other measurements and data collections, or choice and competition. The one-size-fits-all assigned school system with endless budgets and no accountability is obscene and immoral and is certainly not a solution to any problem except how to turn the United States into a third world country.
I understand both sides, but I think Tony Bennett is right, and Diane Ravitch is wrong. I think she is a smart woman and means well, but I still think she's wrong.
I hope the day comes soon when Tony Bennett and charter schools will be gone. I have never understood how charter schools can legally use public monies. And the mayor of Indianapolis needs to be gone too. He is more worried about starting more charter schools than getting rid of the crime on the streets that is killing everyone.
This stuff is great! I am no longer confused as to why reform cannot happen. Look at all the diversity here...all the passionate ideas and opinions. So much force at expelling kids to "alternative schools". What does alternative school mean to you? How much success do you see running out of there. I think what we're asking for is what to do with the "bad kids" "bad parents" and "bad teachers". NO ONE HAS THE ANSWER!!!! Read the history of education. this has been going on for over a hundred years. Let it go. it's cyclical. There are no "good ol' days". People were bitching then too. We would all be more successful at ordering a big ol' pizza....what toppings do you want? All of us together would end up with cheese, but then you have the lactose intolerant, and true vegans. Oh my....what now?
I'm not as optimistic about charter schools, vouchers, and reform as some, but I also think it's silly to make this out to be a local thing. It's a national thing. It's a bipartisan thing. And it's not going away.
@the mayor of Indianapolis needs to be gone too. He is more worried about starting more charter schools than getting rid of the crime on the streets that is killing everyone.
Let's not forget who jumpstarted the Mayor's Charter Schools in Indianapolis. That would be Mayor Peterson; he started Charter Schools; he set up the whole Charter School concept in Indy; he loved Charter Schools. President Obama has been pushing for larger numbers of Charter Schools since he began campaigning for his presidency. Charter Schools are not a Ballard or a Daniels or a Bennett idea. Charters are a bipartisan idea, and for once, we have Democrats and Republicans agreeing on something. Charter Schools are not going to vanish anytime soon, whether we like them or don't like them.
I think the plan should be to buy lots of cardboard boxes... so you all will have a place to put your stuff when you have to clean out your desks. The state can't take over IPS fast enough...
@ expelling kids to alternative schools -- they couldn't be any worse off than they are now, and it would keep the rest of the district from being drug down by kids who don't come to school and kids with major and/or recurrent behavior problems. As unpleasant as the idea of alternative schools is, right now thousands of IPS kids aren't being cheated out of a decent education because of these kids and their families. Our priority needs to be providing opportunity for those who seek it. Curing the problem kids and their families is a worthy goal but needs to come second.
I don't want to lose my job, and I don't want my coworkers to lose their jobs. But what's being allowed to happen in IPS is criminal. If IPS administration can't look out for the kids, then I'm opening to letting the state give it a shot. Because right now, there are too many students being cheated out of an education. If worse comes to worse, I can get another job. They can't get another education. It's all well and good to blame the problems on the worst parents or the worst students, but anybody who works in IPS and is honest with themselves knows there is a huge chunk of students who are not getting the same education they would get in another district. I can't imagine new management would be more self-serving and corrupt than the current IPS administration.
I am a senior citizen. Not a teacher nor an IPS employee, but I have friends who are.
When I think about the direction education is taking it is frightening. It seems to be all about making kids become nothing more than cogs in the machinery of capitalism. Not giving them a good, thorough, education which includes the liberal arts. And, letting them have some fun in the process.
It reminds me of a quote long ago by John Lennon when he said that when he was a kid "the schools I went to wanted to turn me into a dentist" and ignored his creative giftings.
I feel so sorry for children today and what they must go through in school with all of the testing and regimentation.
Seems to be taking a lot of joy out of their childhoods.
Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn wouldn't have had time to have adventure on a raft if they were going to school in the schedules that are shaping up in the future - no summer fun, more school. More tests.
"Our priority needs to be providing opportunity for those who seek it."
Why not? We already provide food, clothing, medical/mental care, free shoes/eyeglasses/coats/school supplies/books/dental care, transportation, and a college education (21st Century Scholars). Let's put cots in the gym and become boarding schools.
You're being intentionally obtuse. Whether or not there are various charity programs available in public schools, the priority of a a PUBLIC school should be to ensure that everyone has access to the a quality education. IPS students do not have the same opportunity as other schools.
I am not a teacher, just someone who has been around a long time and remembers when the way the U.S. educated students was working. I feel that the following changes should be thought about by the existing administrators from Elementary through Grade 12.
1. Have 2 levels of high school education. If a student wants to earn a vocational diploma they would enroll for a Level I diploma. They would be taught Writing, Reading, Comprehension in L.A. for two years. They would be taught Basic Math skills. Most of the time would be spent in subjects related to their chosen field or in an internship. When students graduate from Level I they will be able to go into the workforce with marketable skills. 2. Level II it would be for students who wish to go on to college. This student would take the necessary classes to enter the higher level of education needed for the subject they are wanting to learn. 3. Tests would be given at the 8th grade level to decide which Level a student is best suited for, but a student is never made to take a certain level. They might start at level one as a 9th grader, but decide that they really want a Level 2 Diploma.
We all know that all people are different and learn at different levels. Why try to force all students into the same mold; we all know this is not working and will never work.
If we need educational reform, then let's reform education in the right way. ===============
Very good! I see someone has read what the nation with the number ONE ranked public education system is doing - Finland.
I'm not as optimistic about charter schools, vouchers, and reform as some, but I also think it's silly to make this out to be a local thing. It's a national thing. It's a bipartisan thing. And it's not going away. =============
I think it's a very PARTISAN thing, not a bipartisan one. Can you name me any liberals that favor vouchers? Because that is the only REAL reform I've seen suggested by any politician.
The fact is, private schools spend less money per student and get better results. Parents should be the ones to decide where their tax dollars are spent to educate their children...period!
@ expelling kids to alternative schools -- they couldn't be any worse off than they are now, and it would keep the rest of the district from being drug down by kids who don't come to school and kids with major and/or recurrent behavior problems. As unpleasant as the idea of alternative schools is, right now thousands of IPS kids aren't being cheated out of a decent education because of these kids and their families. Our priority needs to be providing opportunity for those who seek it. Curing the problem kids and their families is a worthy goal but needs to come second. --------------
I am a senior citizen. Not a teacher nor an IPS employee, but I have friends who are.
When I think about the direction education is taking it is frightening. It seems to be all about making kids become nothing more than cogs in the machinery of capitalism. Not giving them a good, thorough, education which includes the liberal arts. And, letting them have some fun in the process.
It reminds me of a quote long ago by John Lennon when he said that when he was a kid "the schools I went to wanted to turn me into a dentist" and ignored his creative giftings.
I feel so sorry for children today and what they must go through in school with all of the testing and regimentation.
Seems to be taking a lot of joy out of their childhoods. -------------
My kids attend a private school and have every liberal arts course imaginable to choose from.
Vouchers are the only answer for the kids at IPS that actually want to work hard and learn and do something with their lives.
"Our priority needs to be providing opportunity for those who seek it."
Why not? We already provide food, clothing, medical/mental care, free shoes/eyeglasses/coats/school supplies/books/dental care, transportation, and a college education (21st Century Scholars). Let's put cots in the gym and become boarding schools. ------------------
And therein lies the problem. I read while ago that 2/3 of the students in IPS schools are being raised by single mothers.
Unless and until society decides to go back to the "good old days" when being on welfare and having kids out of wedlock were both things to be ashamed of and to work to get OUT of, nothing will change for the vast majority of these poor kids.
It's time to tell urban minorities that until they can provide for themselves they have NO business having kids!
"the priority of a a PUBLIC school should be to ensure that everyone has access to the a quality education. IPS students do not have the same opportunity as other schools."
And why is that? Because IPS spends almost twice as much per student per year than some suburban schools.
Actually, IPS doesn't have twice as many special ed students. All of the other districts in the city have between 12% and 16% special ed. IPS has 18%. So IPS does have more, but more like 10-15% more, not double. Indianapolis Met, a charter school, has 27% special ed. That's double.
@ Why is that? You're right, it's not money. In my opinion, poor school leadership and low expectations are the major causes. (Not the cause of all education problems, but why we don't get the results that other schools in the city do.)
I sat on a committee years ago in my Indy suburban school district. The formation of the committee was mandated by the state (which was the one and only reason they held the meeting in the first place). It was a group of parents, teachers, and administrators that were to find ways to meet the needs of Gifted and Talented kids in the district. Our schools had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for these kids and state law says that they are also entitled to an education that meets their special needs.
After hearing what we expected to hear (that there was no money in their budget for these kids), as the parent of two such kids I stood up to say my part. I mentioned that when I was in middle school back in the 70s in what was then one of the top ranked school districts in the nation (Northern Va schools) that kids were grouped by aptitude and different groups studied the same subjects at drastically different rates and depths. Throughout the school day I was in classes with the same high aptitude kids while other sections had kids that had been in and out of institutions, were in constant trouble, etc. But this system enabled them to truly meet the needs of ALL kids and not just focus so much effort on those kids with problems.
Upon suggesting this, one of the teachers in the group proclaimed that "such programs had been tried and were abandoned long ago" because they "created elitist kids who thought they were better than the others" and that studies had shown that putting these high-achieving kids in with the others boosted the performance of the others.
I then asked "are we here tonight to discuss ways to help the others or ways to help the gifted and talented kids whose needs are completely being ignored? And can you show me a single study that shows that putting these high achievers in with the kids that AREN'T there to learn helps THEM?". She was outraged and immediately stood up and left the room (and one other teacher and one of the elementary principals - which happened to be the one at MY kids' school) followed her out.
The very next day I began searching for a private school to move my kids to and they have both been there ever since.
I believe that the "self-esteem" movement is a big part of what has ruined public education. These teachers cannot admit that YES - some students ARE better than others. Instead we worry about the impact on the self-esteem of those less capable if we admit that. We hide the names and identities of the valedictorians or list TEN of them so that everyone feels better that there is not one outstanding student.
It doesn't occur to the educators today that maybe being grouped by ability was what caused those in the lower aptitude groups to work harder or to do better to be promoted! Or that perhaps they are more comfortable being in classes with kids of their own ability rather than kids who are FAR more intelligent.
The PC and hurt feelings crap is a huge part of the problem IMO. I was also told in that committee that although the state law placed both kids with learning disabilities AND those who are gifted and talented in the same category of "exceptional learners" (which noted that BOTH required customized educational opportunities) that the state's funding per child for those with learning disabilities was $2200 per kid per year while the funding for the G&T kids was only $52 per kid per year.
We are completely neglecting our nation's best and brightest kids in 85% of the public schools in this country by not affording them the courtesy of an education that allows them to reach their potential. And I blame EDUCATORS for this since they are the ones more concerned with not hurting the feelings of the lesser achieving students.
It wouldn't cost a DIME more to divide these kids by ABILITY like we used to and teach to their differing abilities. But that won't stop until the PC "everyone's a winner" crowd is driven from the educational establishment in this country.
I am not an educator, but rather an educated parent. I work in healthcare where we are quite accustomed to having to deliver results. If we treat a patient in one way for years and it works just fine and then we start treating patients in some new way and notice that it doesn't work fine, common sense tells us that we should go back to the OLD way of treating them - that despite the hype the new way just isn't cutting it.
Those in education don't seem to think along these lines of actually considering the structural changes we've seen in education from when the system worked to now and consider ways to go BACK to what worked. It's mind-boggling to many of us; I am not alone in believing that a return to strict discipline and tossing the focus on self-esteem and getting back to focusing on meeting the needs of ALL kids is what is needed.
And no offense to the teachers here, but most are "progressives" politically and view with disdain any mention of returning to the past and instead are always looking for something new to try on our kids. Well guess what? These kids aren't for experimentation. It's time to accept that these structural changes have failed MISERABLY and to return to what actually worked.
There was urban poverty and decay and drug-addicted parents in the 70s. But schools worked much, much better.
I couldn't agree more. When a school is deemed a success because "x" number of kids PASS a standardized test, that is the very definition of striving for mediocrity. Racing to "PASS", striving to be average. What a concept.
I think the DOE website should post the average scores in each category for those schools; that would give somewhat of an indication of what those schools do with the higher-achieving students.
And one last point (lol) about poor administrators...
At the very same time I was sitting on that committee, my very bright 7th grader who had always LOVED school broke down and cried one day on the way there and told me that she was so bored in her classes that year that she didn't really see any point in going there anymore. I asked her why and she explained that in science, for example, they were studying the EXACT same topics they'd studied the year before and weren't learning anything new. I said "but you're studying them in greater detail this year, aren't you?" She said NO - that it was actually in LESS detail I told her I wanted her to show me exactly what she was talking about that night. So she did. She pulled out her 6th grade notebook and placed it by her 7th grade one and topic by topic showed me that they were indeed studying the same topics in lesser detail..I was FURIOUS.
The next day I called the principal and asked how on Earth this could happen. His reply was, "well, you are right. They changed the state standards a couple of years ago and we really should look at making sure the curriculum doesn't overlap so much from grade to grade". I'm NOT kidding - that was his response - that in TWO YEARS they'd not bothered to recognize that their 6th and 7th grade science classes were virtually identical.
I asked him how on Earth it didn't occur to the two science teachers involved to prevent this, or to him OR to the lady sitting at the Admin Office with the title of "Curriculum Director". He had no answer. I told him that his abject negligence was responsible for just having wasted A YEAR of my young daughter's life along with countless others. So I told him to get my daughter's transcripts ready immediately - that she would not be returning to that school the following semester.
This MORON was given an award by IASP for being the best middle school principal in the state 2 years after that conversation.
Also during that conversation I told him about a young, new English teacher that had been hired and was teaching Advanced English. She raised the standards TREMENDOUSLY for these kids and was one of about 3 teachers in that school to do so. My daughter loved her class. And mind you, these kids and their parents were told at the outset that this class would be more difficult and that not everyone would get an "A" (which those admitted to the class were accustomed to getting). So when these "A" students started bringing home "B" and "C" tests, the parents were screaming. They badgered her HORRIBLY and by Christmas, they absolutely broke her. After break, the curriculum was sufficiently dumbed down so that all kids would get their "As" and there was no disciplining those who chose to chew gum, talk in class, etc. It was sad to hear. I blasted him for not supporting this young, determined teacher that was actually doing what she was hired to do. He should have told those parents to TAKE A HIKE and remember that they'd been told that when in a classroom with ALL advanced kids, obviously not all of them are going to get an "A". But he didn't. He allowed those parents to beat this poor young woman into submission and to break her spirit and attempt to actually challenge these kids for the first time EVER in English. I was sad.
And this is what qualifies one to be deemed the best principal in the state. What a joke.
This happened in an Indianapolis suburban school..one deemed a "Four star" school. I can't imagine it's not happening everywhere (including IPS) if this "award-winning" suburban school can be that pathetic and deemed a shining success at the same time. :(
OK - off of my soapbox. But I agree with those who say that it's pathetic administrators that are a part of the problem. I thought my example is a perfect one.
As a teacher and parent I could not agree with you any more. As a person that was educated in a different country, I have always struggled with the logic behind our educational thinking here. Well, actually I guess it is the absence of logic that is the problem. Please continue to speak out about it.
1. Cut half of administration. Even if they are all competent, which they are not, IPS is top-heavy.
ReplyDelete2. Get rid of teaching coaches and the teachers who need them.
3. Get rid of teachers who don't like brown people, poor people, and/or kids today in general.
4. Get rid of the dress code, except in alternative schools.
5. Develop a 10-day limit attendance policy like other schools have. If students reach the limit, they are transferred to alternative schools.
6. Transfer major or recurrent discipline problems to alternative schools.
7. Encourage parental input, even if it's criticism. Treat parents like they would be treated if they were outside of the district.
8. Encourage differentiation instruction. It's almost nonexistent in IPS.
9. In secondary ed, expand AP options, dual credit-courses, as well as reinstitute trade programs.
Even if 80% of IPS ended up being alternative schools (which I don't believe they would), this would ensure that living in the IPS district wouldn't automatically sentence you to a bad school. The boundary schools need to be run like good schools with kind, competent teachers, and the expectation of well-behaved, high-achieving students. The problems need to be treated like the exception. As it stands, IPS is run like a mini-prison, and that negatively impacts every facet of the district.
I'm one of those crazy radical teachers who actually supports school choice.
ReplyDeleteWow, that first post is rather negative. I don't know where you work but at my school the teachers like each other, the children and their parents.
ReplyDeleteMy suggestion is to stop giving all the administration phony promotions and raises. Eliminate many of the ed center positions, we seriously don't need that many people, nor do they need TWO secretaries. Put that money into staff for schools. Low class sizes and a low tolerance policy for misbehavior would go a long way toward letting teachers teach.
Disruptive students need to be removed, so the students who are trying to learn can learn.
Definitely reinstate trades. Not every child needs to go to college. Every child is different. The important thing is to develop a work ethic. Get a job, do you job well, don't call in sick all the time, be on time. Then society thrives.
Get rid of a large number of the high paying, do nothing administrative jobs. Get rid of the made up jobs for relatives of Eugene White and his other administrators who have sons, daughters, brothers and sisters being paid outrageous amounts of money for doing nothing except being related to the right person.
ReplyDeleteLet me walk around the Education Center for one wekk, we would "pink slip" half the staff, and then send them into alternative classes, yes lets see which township system would go after Bridgewaters, Greenwood, Scruggs, and Kendricks? Not one. Then after their notice is follow to the letter of the law, fire them.
ReplyDeleteI love my school too, my students, my parents and my principal. I'd get rid of Dibels testing, Benchmarks and whatever keeps those downtown people employed.All principals should be like our principal. 111 to 12 hour days and greeting everyone with a smile EVERY day no matter what.I hate the fact that many of our kids are being retained. Most of it is due to laziness. The curriculum requirements are what they are and if they don't meet it then retention is the ONLY forceful thing we can do. We are getting kids from the charters that are behind right before ISTEP PLUS the parents tell us that the charter didn't give out homework. Seems that was a "selling point" at the beginning of the year. They gave them some bogus report on how "Homework doesn't help kids learn" Shoot, many of OUR parents would jump at that if they knew they DID NOT have to help with their child's homework every night. Who creates these phony reports? McGraw Hill?
ReplyDeleteThere are all kinds of studies that show that homework doesn't help kids learn. At IU they are teaching teachers not to give homework, based on all the studies. So it's not something charter schools are making up. Also, you want to do away with benchmarks? Really, this is your idea of reform? Just stop collecting data. Then we'll be fine, lol?
ReplyDeleteDon't argue with this person. She makes up things about charter schools and then posts them here and on the star forums. It's amazing that this teacher sees all these kids coming from charter schools when all the data (as you can see, she's not a fan of data) shows that it's the other way around.
ReplyDeleteThese are areas I would like hear others' thoughts on:
ReplyDelete1. Use Title money to fund 18 weeks of Pre-K for 4 year olds to jump start kindergarten.
2. Hire floating secretaries to do the principal's paperwork that Title teachers do.
3. Require all district administrators to do an FMLA sub postition for at least 4 weeks once every 2 years.
4. Train principals in Human Resource issues.
5. Have principals meet with low performing teachers 3x a week to help them improve or help them out the door.
6. Force administrators to lead by example. If you want incompetent teachers fired, fire incompetent administrators. If you want principals to walk the buildings, district people should walk the buildings and call teachers and custodial staff by name.
8. Use Title money at the high school to fund Vocational Ed.
9. Put coaches back in the classroom.
10. Get serious about science instruction.
What about the PIMP.
ReplyDelete"Require all district administrators to do an FMLA sub postition for at least 4 weeks once every 2 years."
ReplyDeleteBefore joining IPS, I taught for 20+ years in a large school district (85,000 students), and the top-level central office administrators (superintendent, asst. supers, directors, etc.) were required in their contracts to substitute teach two days per year in a classroom in their area of certification. The superintendent was certified as an English (9-12) teacher, and he did a fantastic job with Shakespeare. It worked!
I'd love to see that happen in IPS -- not as punishment, but a part of the administrators' contracts.
I think all 19 of the numbered suggestions are good ideas.
ReplyDeleteTo the teacher who gives homework that kids can't do on their own (you said parents must help out with it), don't you think you're setting yourself up for failure that way? Either parents don't know how to do it, do know how but can't explain it to their kids, or they teach their kids some alternative way the parents learned in school that completely confuses the kid when I want them to do it differently. I very rarely assign homework, only as a consequence for not accomplishing the day's lesson during class time.
ReplyDeletehomework as punishment....that sends a message right there.......!!
ReplyDeleteGo back to neighborhood schools, invite parents in, fire all the Ed center folks by actually implementing SBDM, sell Walnut St site and give money to athletic programs.
ReplyDeleteI didn't mean as a punishment. I would have called it punishment. I meant a consequence. If it doesn't get done in class, then they'll have to take it home. That's exactly the way it works in the real world. Nobody assigns me work that has to be done at home. But I take home whatever doesn't get done at school.
ReplyDeleteExpand on your thoughts. Let's say you have your neighborhood schools and your school-based decision making. What decisions are you going to make that is going to reform things?
ReplyDeleteHow about spending Title monies on the kids and not "trips". Also, the neighborhood schools were the best...bring them back.
ReplyDeleteAre the people recommending the return of neighborhood schools really trying to promote ideas to reform public education, or merely longing to return to the "good old days" when we didn't think too much about such things.
ReplyDelete1. Kids of poverty come to us 2 years behind, at least that used to be the thinking. Boys maybe even more depending always on the birthdate. With no preschool and little or no home teaching, retain more in Kdg. and 1st, 2nd if necessary if they've gotten that far and need it. Teachers send kids on for two reasons. First they (teachers) feel the look "BAD" if they retain because the kids should've "gotten it "and they must not have done their impossible job progressing them developmentally. Secondly, IPS makes it so difficult and tedious with paperwork, etc. that teachers who are already overdone just can't bother with it all. I'm surprised no one has been deemed "retention specialist" to walk around with a clipboard. That just might be helpful.
ReplyDelete2. Cut the data crap. Enough. Who is it really helping?
3. Put the Governor, Super of Public Instruction, and Super Gene in charge of a classroom for a week. Their choice.
4. Get the testing companies and DOE people who write the tests off the pedestal. Some of their questions on these tests are downright stupid and don't even fit the experiences of the children we are putting " first. "
5. Put more funded worthwhile afterschool activities in public school facilities. Give these kids something to do. In Indianapolis if a parent isn't a driving force behind doing this and we know many can't and aren't, they don't have a chance. It all boils down to a social problem.
To the people who think that things will be better if we simply stop tracking data -- isn't that a lot like White thinking things will be better if we just don't ask questions or keep track of where things are spent?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.indystar.com/article/20110213/LOCAL/102130360/IPS-Board-ponder-revised-district-plan-Monday?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com
ReplyDelete1. I love the idea a few posts up suggesting Title 1 funds go to Vocational Education ( and not to luncheons at the Riverwalk)
ReplyDelete2. Administrators should do a walkthrough of every teacher's classroom at least once a month.
3. Stop paying INSAI and allow schools to use their own school improvement plans devised by the building teachers.
4. We need 1 superintendant, 2 deputy superintendants,; we need One director of transportation, One director for Title 1, One director for facilities maintenance,One school police chief,One Human Resource director, One school & community/public relations person---everybody else needs to go! No more directors, coaches-instructional, Springboard, literacy, etc. If they are such experts, then their expertise is actually needed in the classroom. Think of the millions os savings right here!
5. Return to Heads of Departments that report directly to a deputy superintendant.
6. I think a 10 day absence limit is great, along with a three time suspension limit.
7. Every school needs an athletic program and an afterschool program of electives that deal with practical life skills. ( For instance learning to cook, sew, etc. Kids have brought me bags of clothes from home to sew for them because many can not thread a needle.)
Re: First post: "8. Encourage differentiation instruction. It's almost nonexistent in IPS."
ReplyDeleteThe reality is to be effective, all instruction has to be differentiated. Another reality is that we have a lot of teachers who still subscribe to the "one size fits all" approach. Obviously that is not working. It is easy to understand why people think that way. That approach worked for them.
Perhaps we should develop an IEP for every student. So many of our students are so low and so far behind that we must develop a plan to get them up to grade level.
Who do you propose develop an IEP for EVERY student in IPS?
ReplyDeleteIn the "good old days" when we had neighborhood schools students learned. They had to walk to school ( exercise), listen to the teacher ( there were consequences...not a pat on the back) and no ISTEP. Teachers were able to teach and teach they did. Students were taught respect for others, empathy, and just plain getting along with each other. No Supertendant at the state level telling teachers how to teach and what was good for the children. And guess what? They learned!
ReplyDeleteWhat do you do when a student has missed 10 days? Suspend them?? It makes to no sense to suspend a student for not coming to school. Throw them out of school and keep them uneducated. Poor attendance is a major problem in IPS but I don't know of any solutions to it other than putting the parents in jail.
ReplyDeleteYeah yeah. We know. The kids behaved and the students learned and you walked uphill in the snow both ways to and from school. lol
ReplyDeleteI am not being nostalgic. Seriously, when parents are closer to where their kids are they show up. What it means for reform is that accountability rises for everyone involved, period.
ReplyDeleteThe other districts don't put parents in jail. They just expel them.
ReplyDeleteI am not a teacher, just someone who has been around a long time and remembers when the way the U.S. educated students was working. I feel that the following changes should be thought about by the existing administrators from Elementary through Grade 12.
ReplyDelete1. Have 2 levels of high school education. If a student wants to earn a vocational diploma they would enroll for a Level I diploma. They would be taught Writing, Reading, Comprehension in L.A. for two years. They would be taught Basic Math skills. Most of the time would be spent in subjects related to their chosen field or in an internship. When students graduate from Level I they will be able to go into the workforce with marketable skills.
2. Level II it would be for students who wish to go on to college. This student would take the necessary classes to enter the higher level of education needed for the subject they are wanting to learn.
3. Tests would be given at the 8th grade level to decide which Level a student is best suited for, but a student is never made to take a certain level. They might start at level one as a 9th grader, but decide that they really want a Level 2 Diploma.
We all know that all people are different and learn at different levels. Why try to force all students into the same mold; we all know this is not working and will never work.
If we need educational reform, then let's reform education in the right way.
What's the difference between a neighborhood school and a regular boundary school? Do you mean get rid of the magnet programs? If so, that seems illogical.
ReplyDeleteSchools were not better in the past. They were the same. That's the whole problem. Other countries have drastically improved their education programs, and we're getting the same results as we were 100 years ago.
ReplyDeleteThey expell them or tell them to find a relative who lives in the IPS district and use that address to enroll in IPS.
ReplyDeletelol. NOBODY is cheating to get IN to IPS. That's funny!
ReplyDeleteWow, the above article is inspiring. It goes to show a) how much improvement is really possible and b) what good leadership can accomplish! Kudos to them!
ReplyDeleteTo the first poster: What about the teachers, support staff, and admin that don't like white people? Do they get to stay? Or are we being one-sided?
ReplyDeleteI haven't come across that in all my years at IPS (and I'm white, so I'd notice if people didn't like me), but obviously anyone who doesn't like an entire race or culture has no business in IPS.
ReplyDeleteI'm white and when I started at School 27 I noticed a distinct hostility from the black staff members. And I'll never forget the student who told me, "My mama say I don't have to listen to yawl white teachers". I have worked in 13 schools 12, in IPS and that was the first time I've ever experienced that.
ReplyDeleteOf course the principal there was FREAKIN' INSANE and I chose to transfer out.
Maybe with the new CFI or whatever is going there it will help. That place was sick(as in ill)
We need to expell students who missed more than ten days unexcussed, only after ADM just like the townships school do every year. I had a student who lived in Washington Township, and he lied to attend BRHS, just to roam the hallways and shoot dice. His mother could of care less if he finished high school, now both are in prison? What a proud mother, both of her babies, and daddy are locked up.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't think township schools tell parents to lie about addresses so their child can go to IPS, you are REALLY out of touch. It usually goes like this. We are going to have your son/daughter arrested/expelled or do you have a relative in IPS who you could use to transfer your child. This way it does not show up in their data as an arrest or expulsion. Anyone who has worked in IPS knows this.
ReplyDeleteOkay, but how come these students (from other townships, from the charter schools, etc.) never show up in the IPS numbers. Coming after ADM would make sense for one year, but not the next. IPS enrollment is declining. Rapidly. If kids are sneaking into IPS they are doing so at a slower rate than the people who are leaving IPS.
ReplyDeleteI've worked at IPS for almost 15 years, and I have never witnessed half of the things you describe. I don't think you even work in IPS. I think you make up stories based on stereotypes and rumors. I wouldn't want to work with you, and I wouldn't want you to teach my child.
ReplyDeleteI'm an IPS teacher, and while I've seen some disturbing things, I hate how some of the people here portray it as the norm, when it's not. The far majority of my kids and parents are just like any other kid or parent from any other district. When we treat IPS families like they are different, they resent us and rightly so. I wouldn't put my name on a paper for someone who thought they were better than me. Would you?
ReplyDeleteI agree. Parents, students, poverty, etc. are the reason we can't compete with Hamilton County. They are not the reason we can't compete with the township schools. Until IPS gets the same results as the townships, there is room for improvement/reform.
ReplyDeleteI love how when someone posts something, someone disagrees with, they automatically accuse them of lying. Personally I only report on things that have actually happened to me.
ReplyDeleteYou know it's perfectly acceptable to disagree with things people say, without getting on your high horse. you should try it sometime.
Before we teachers get too cozy with believing that the ISTA or the IEA can protect us from making demands for working conditions or other agenda items that do not lead directly toward assisting in the raising of students' levels of achievement, let's not forget August, 1981, when Ronald Reagan fired 11,000 federally employed union air traffic controllers whose union was a total roadblock to the airways.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't want to teach your spoiled, undisciplined, rude and unclean brat kids. So there.
ReplyDeleteLOL I just watched that Reagan special too!
ReplyDeleteOMG!!! http://www.wthr.com/story/14027790/tony-bennett-on-charter-schools .
ReplyDelete"... She makes up things about charter schools and then posts them here and on the star forums. It's amazing that this teacher sees all these kids coming from charter schools when all the data (as you can see, she's not a fan of data) shows that it's the other way around."
ReplyDeleteYeah those negative things about charters is MADE up... the anti-IPS stuff is what's made up.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/11/myth-charter-schools/
We have data overload. It keeps people employed, that's all.Teach kids and quit teaching to tests. McGraw Hill doesn't need our money.
Bennett makes sense to me. It's funny because when you turn on the news, they make it look like all teachers are anti-reform and anti-Bennett, anti-Mitch Daniels, etc. But the majority of teachers I know support school reform and charter schools to some degree or another.
ReplyDeleteAnti-choice people want to group all traditional schools with the good ones (the best schools are traditional schools, so we don't need choice) and want to group all charter schools with the bad ones (some of the charter schools aren't better, so all charter schools should be shut down). The obvious answer is to close bad schools (traditional or charter) and leave good schools open (traditional or charter). What's so radical about that?
ReplyDeleteRe: data overload. There are two ways to make sure government programs (like public education) are doing what they should. Constantly measuring and collecting data and comparing to other measurements and data collections, or choice and competition. The one-size-fits-all assigned school system with endless budgets and no accountability is obscene and immoral and is certainly not a solution to any problem except how to turn the United States into a third world country.
ReplyDeleteI understand both sides, but I think Tony Bennett is right, and Diane Ravitch is wrong. I think she is a smart woman and means well, but I still think she's wrong.
ReplyDeleteI hope the day comes soon when Tony Bennett and charter schools will be gone. I have never understood how charter schools can legally use public monies. And the mayor of Indianapolis needs to be gone too. He is more worried about starting more charter schools than getting rid of the crime on the streets that is killing everyone.
ReplyDeleteThis stuff is great! I am no longer confused as to why reform cannot happen. Look at all the diversity here...all the passionate ideas and opinions. So much force at expelling kids to "alternative schools". What does alternative school mean to you? How much success do you see running out of there. I think what we're asking for is what to do with the "bad kids" "bad parents" and "bad teachers". NO ONE HAS THE ANSWER!!!! Read the history of education. this has been going on for over a hundred years. Let it go. it's cyclical. There are no "good ol' days". People were bitching then too. We would all be more successful at ordering a big ol' pizza....what toppings do you want? All of us together would end up with cheese, but then you have the lactose intolerant, and true vegans. Oh my....what now?
ReplyDeleteI'm not as optimistic about charter schools, vouchers, and reform as some, but I also think it's silly to make this out to be a local thing. It's a national thing. It's a bipartisan thing. And it's not going away.
ReplyDelete@the mayor of Indianapolis needs to be gone too. He is more worried about starting more charter schools than getting rid of the crime on the streets that is killing everyone.
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget who jumpstarted the Mayor's Charter Schools in Indianapolis. That would be Mayor Peterson; he started Charter Schools; he set up the whole Charter School concept in Indy; he loved Charter Schools. President Obama has been pushing for larger numbers of Charter Schools since he began campaigning for his presidency. Charter Schools are not a Ballard or a Daniels or a Bennett idea. Charters are a bipartisan idea, and for once, we have Democrats and Republicans agreeing on something. Charter Schools are not going to vanish anytime soon, whether we like them or don't like them.
I think the plan should be to buy lots of cardboard boxes... so you all will have a place to put your stuff when you have to clean out your desks. The state can't take over IPS fast enough...
ReplyDelete@ expelling kids to alternative schools -- they couldn't be any worse off than they are now, and it would keep the rest of the district from being drug down by kids who don't come to school and kids with major and/or recurrent behavior problems. As unpleasant as the idea of alternative schools is, right now thousands of IPS kids aren't being cheated out of a decent education because of these kids and their families. Our priority needs to be providing opportunity for those who seek it. Curing the problem kids and their families is a worthy goal but needs to come second.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to lose my job, and I don't want my coworkers to lose their jobs. But what's being allowed to happen in IPS is criminal. If IPS administration can't look out for the kids, then I'm opening to letting the state give it a shot. Because right now, there are too many students being cheated out of an education. If worse comes to worse, I can get another job. They can't get another education. It's all well and good to blame the problems on the worst parents or the worst students, but anybody who works in IPS and is honest with themselves knows there is a huge chunk of students who are not getting the same education they would get in another district. I can't imagine new management would be more self-serving and corrupt than the current IPS administration.
ReplyDeleteI am a senior citizen. Not a teacher nor an IPS employee, but I have friends who are.
ReplyDeleteWhen I think about the direction education is taking it is frightening. It seems to be all about making kids become nothing more than cogs in the machinery of capitalism. Not giving them a good, thorough, education which includes the liberal arts. And, letting them have some fun in the process.
It reminds me of a quote long ago by John Lennon when he said that when he was a kid "the schools I went to wanted to turn me into a dentist" and ignored his creative giftings.
I feel so sorry for children today and what they must go through in school with all of the testing and regimentation.
Seems to be taking a lot of joy out of their childhoods.
Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn wouldn't have had time to have adventure on a raft if they were going to school in the schedules that are shaping up in the future - no summer fun, more school. More tests.
Poor kids. Bless their hearts.
re: The other districts don't put parents in jail. They just expel them.
ReplyDeleteHow does a district expel parents?
Just sayin'.
"Our priority needs to be providing opportunity for those who seek it."
ReplyDeleteWhy not? We already provide food, clothing, medical/mental care, free shoes/eyeglasses/coats/school supplies/books/dental care, transportation, and a college education (21st Century Scholars). Let's put cots in the gym and become boarding schools.
You're being intentionally obtuse. Whether or not there are various charity programs available in public schools, the priority of a a PUBLIC school should be to ensure that everyone has access to the a quality education. IPS students do not have the same opportunity as other schools.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI am not a teacher, just someone who has been around a long time and remembers when the way the U.S. educated students was working. I feel that the following changes should be thought about by the existing administrators from Elementary through Grade 12.
1. Have 2 levels of high school education. If a student wants to earn a vocational diploma they would enroll for a Level I diploma. They would be taught Writing, Reading, Comprehension in L.A. for two years. They would be taught Basic Math skills. Most of the time would be spent in subjects related to their chosen field or in an internship. When students graduate from Level I they will be able to go into the workforce with marketable skills.
2. Level II it would be for students who wish to go on to college. This student would take the necessary classes to enter the higher level of education needed for the subject they are wanting to learn.
3. Tests would be given at the 8th grade level to decide which Level a student is best suited for, but a student is never made to take a certain level. They might start at level one as a 9th grader, but decide that they really want a Level 2 Diploma.
We all know that all people are different and learn at different levels. Why try to force all students into the same mold; we all know this is not working and will never work.
If we need educational reform, then let's reform education in the right way.
===============
Very good! I see someone has read what the nation with the number ONE ranked public education system is doing - Finland.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI'm not as optimistic about charter schools, vouchers, and reform as some, but I also think it's silly to make this out to be a local thing. It's a national thing. It's a bipartisan thing. And it's not going away.
=============
I think it's a very PARTISAN thing, not a bipartisan one. Can you name me any liberals that favor vouchers? Because that is the only REAL reform I've seen suggested by any politician.
The fact is, private schools spend less money per student and get better results. Parents should be the ones to decide where their tax dollars are spent to educate their children...period!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete@ expelling kids to alternative schools -- they couldn't be any worse off than they are now, and it would keep the rest of the district from being drug down by kids who don't come to school and kids with major and/or recurrent behavior problems. As unpleasant as the idea of alternative schools is, right now thousands of IPS kids aren't being cheated out of a decent education because of these kids and their families. Our priority needs to be providing opportunity for those who seek it. Curing the problem kids and their families is a worthy goal but needs to come second.
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Excellent; I completely agree.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI am a senior citizen. Not a teacher nor an IPS employee, but I have friends who are.
When I think about the direction education is taking it is frightening. It seems to be all about making kids become nothing more than cogs in the machinery of capitalism. Not giving them a good, thorough, education which includes the liberal arts. And, letting them have some fun in the process.
It reminds me of a quote long ago by John Lennon when he said that when he was a kid "the schools I went to wanted to turn me into a dentist" and ignored his creative giftings.
I feel so sorry for children today and what they must go through in school with all of the testing and regimentation.
Seems to be taking a lot of joy out of their childhoods.
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My kids attend a private school and have every liberal arts course imaginable to choose from.
Vouchers are the only answer for the kids at IPS that actually want to work hard and learn and do something with their lives.
nonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Our priority needs to be providing opportunity for those who seek it."
Why not? We already provide food, clothing, medical/mental care, free shoes/eyeglasses/coats/school supplies/books/dental care, transportation, and a college education (21st Century Scholars). Let's put cots in the gym and become boarding schools.
------------------
And therein lies the problem. I read while ago that 2/3 of the students in IPS schools are being raised by single mothers.
Unless and until society decides to go back to the "good old days" when being on welfare and having kids out of wedlock were both things to be ashamed of and to work to get OUT of, nothing will change for the vast majority of these poor kids.
It's time to tell urban minorities that until they can provide for themselves they have NO business having kids!
"the priority of a a PUBLIC school should be to ensure that everyone has access to the a quality education. IPS students do not have the same opportunity as other schools."
ReplyDeleteAnd why is that? Because IPS spends almost twice as much per student per year than some suburban schools.
And we have twice as many special ed students...many the result of drug mothers.
ReplyDeleteActually, IPS doesn't have twice as many special ed students. All of the other districts in the city have between 12% and 16% special ed. IPS has 18%. So IPS does have more, but more like 10-15% more, not double. Indianapolis Met, a charter school, has 27% special ed. That's double.
ReplyDelete@ Why is that? You're right, it's not money. In my opinion, poor school leadership and low expectations are the major causes. (Not the cause of all education problems, but why we don't get the results that other schools in the city do.)
ReplyDeleteActually, I do think money is part of it. There's enough money coming into the district, but not enough going into the classrooms.
ReplyDelete@ the money issue.
ReplyDeleteI sat on a committee years ago in my Indy suburban school district. The formation of the committee was mandated by the state (which was the one and only reason they held the meeting in the first place). It was a group of parents, teachers, and administrators that were to find ways to meet the needs of Gifted and Talented kids in the district. Our schools had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for these kids and state law says that they are also entitled to an education that meets their special needs.
After hearing what we expected to hear (that there was no money in their budget for these kids), as the parent of two such kids I stood up to say my part. I mentioned that when I was in middle school back in the 70s in what was then one of the top ranked school districts in the nation (Northern Va schools) that kids were grouped by aptitude and different groups studied the same subjects at drastically different rates and depths. Throughout the school day I was in classes with the same high aptitude kids while other sections had kids that had been in and out of institutions, were in constant trouble, etc. But this system enabled them to truly meet the needs of ALL kids and not just focus so much effort on those kids with problems.
Upon suggesting this, one of the teachers in the group proclaimed that "such programs had been tried and were abandoned long ago" because they "created elitist kids who thought they were better than the others" and that studies had shown that putting these high-achieving kids in with the others boosted the performance of the others.
I then asked "are we here tonight to discuss ways to help the others or ways to help the gifted and talented kids whose needs are completely being ignored? And can you show me a single study that shows that putting these high achievers in with the kids that AREN'T there to learn helps THEM?". She was outraged and immediately stood up and left the room (and one other teacher and one of the elementary principals - which happened to be the one at MY kids' school) followed her out.
The very next day I began searching for a private school to move my kids to and they have both been there ever since.
I believe that the "self-esteem" movement is a big part of what has ruined public education. These teachers cannot admit that YES - some students ARE better than others. Instead we worry about the impact on the self-esteem of those less capable if we admit that. We hide the names and identities of the valedictorians or list TEN of them so that everyone feels better that there is not one outstanding student.
It doesn't occur to the educators today that maybe being grouped by ability was what caused those in the lower aptitude groups to work harder or to do better to be promoted! Or that perhaps they are more comfortable being in classes with kids of their own ability rather than kids who are FAR more intelligent.
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ReplyDeleteThe PC and hurt feelings crap is a huge part of the problem IMO. I was also told in that committee that although the state law placed both kids with learning disabilities AND those who are gifted and talented in the same category of "exceptional learners" (which noted that BOTH required customized educational opportunities) that the state's funding per child for those with learning disabilities was $2200 per kid per year while the funding for the G&T kids was only $52 per kid per year.
We are completely neglecting our nation's best and brightest kids in 85% of the public schools in this country by not affording them the courtesy of an education that allows them to reach their potential. And I blame EDUCATORS for this since they are the ones more concerned with not hurting the feelings of the lesser achieving students.
It wouldn't cost a DIME more to divide these kids by ABILITY like we used to and teach to their differing abilities. But that won't stop until the PC "everyone's a winner" crowd is driven from the educational establishment in this country.
I am not an educator, but rather an educated parent. I work in healthcare where we are quite accustomed to having to deliver results. If we treat a patient in one way for years and it works just fine and then we start treating patients in some new way and notice that it doesn't work fine, common sense tells us that we should go back to the OLD way of treating them - that despite the hype the new way just isn't cutting it.
Those in education don't seem to think along these lines of actually considering the structural changes we've seen in education from when the system worked to now and consider ways to go BACK to what worked. It's mind-boggling to many of us; I am not alone in believing that a return to strict discipline and tossing the focus on self-esteem and getting back to focusing on meeting the needs of ALL kids is what is needed.
And no offense to the teachers here, but most are "progressives" politically and view with disdain any mention of returning to the past and instead are always looking for something new to try on our kids. Well guess what? These kids aren't for experimentation. It's time to accept that these structural changes have failed MISERABLY and to return to what actually worked.
There was urban poverty and decay and drug-addicted parents in the 70s. But schools worked much, much better.
@lowered expectations:
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more. When a school is deemed a success because "x" number of kids PASS a standardized test, that is the very definition of striving for mediocrity. Racing to "PASS", striving to be average. What a concept.
I think the DOE website should post the average scores in each category for those schools; that would give somewhat of an indication of what those schools do with the higher-achieving students.
And one last point (lol) about poor administrators...
At the very same time I was sitting on that committee, my very bright 7th grader who had always LOVED school broke down and cried one day on the way there and told me that she was so bored in her classes that year that she didn't really see any point in going there anymore. I asked her why and she explained that in science, for example, they were studying the EXACT same topics they'd studied the year before and weren't learning anything new. I said "but you're studying them in greater detail this year, aren't you?" She said NO - that it was actually in LESS detail I told her I wanted her to show me exactly what she was talking about that night. So she did. She pulled out her 6th grade notebook and placed it by her 7th grade one and topic by topic showed me that they were indeed studying the same topics in lesser detail..I was FURIOUS.
The next day I called the principal and asked how on Earth this could happen. His reply was, "well, you are right. They changed the state standards a couple of years ago and we really should look at making sure the curriculum doesn't overlap so much from grade to grade". I'm NOT kidding - that was his response - that in TWO YEARS they'd not bothered to recognize that their 6th and 7th grade science classes were virtually identical.
I asked him how on Earth it didn't occur to the two science teachers involved to prevent this, or to him OR to the lady sitting at the Admin Office with the title of "Curriculum Director". He had no answer. I told him that his abject negligence was responsible for just having wasted A YEAR of my young daughter's life along with countless others. So I told him to get my daughter's transcripts ready immediately - that she would not be returning to that school the following semester.
This MORON was given an award by IASP for being the best middle school principal in the state 2 years after that conversation.
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ReplyDeleteAlso during that conversation I told him about a young, new English teacher that had been hired and was teaching Advanced English. She raised the standards TREMENDOUSLY for these kids and was one of about 3 teachers in that school to do so. My daughter loved her class. And mind you, these kids and their parents were told at the outset that this class would be more difficult and that not everyone would get an "A" (which those admitted to the class were accustomed to getting). So when these "A" students started bringing home "B" and "C" tests, the parents were screaming. They badgered her HORRIBLY and by Christmas, they absolutely broke her. After break, the curriculum was sufficiently dumbed down so that all kids would get their "As" and there was no disciplining those who chose to chew gum, talk in class, etc. It was sad to hear. I blasted him for not supporting this young, determined teacher that was actually doing what she was hired to do. He should have told those parents to TAKE A HIKE and remember that they'd been told that when in a classroom with ALL advanced kids, obviously not all of them are going to get an "A". But he didn't. He allowed those parents to beat this poor young woman into submission and to break her spirit and attempt to actually challenge these kids for the first time EVER in English. I was sad.
And this is what qualifies one to be deemed the best principal in the state. What a joke.
This happened in an Indianapolis suburban school..one deemed a "Four star" school. I can't imagine it's not happening everywhere (including IPS) if this "award-winning" suburban school can be that pathetic and deemed a shining success at the same time. :(
OK - off of my soapbox. But I agree with those who say that it's pathetic administrators that are a part of the problem. I thought my example is a perfect one.
As a teacher and parent I could not agree with you any more. As a person that was educated in a different country, I have always struggled with the logic behind our educational thinking here. Well, actually I guess it is the absence of logic that is the problem. Please continue to speak out about it.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't we get rid of the behavior adjustment facilitators in the elementary schools? That would definitely free up some $!!!
ReplyDelete@ the absence of logic comment.
ReplyDeleteThat is SO true, an absence of logic and of common sense. A young teacher I know used to refer to it as "uncommon sense"!
But I am really pleased to see that there are is a teacher out there that agrees; thanks.