Eugene White does not care about fights. Our mostly good IPS students are as tired of this out of control violence as the teachers and parents are. Broad Ripple is supposed to be a Magnet school for the serious students. This is strictly low class behavior. I hope that students will continue to film these and post to YOutube since Eugene is working so hard to deny that these kinds of fights are commonplace all over town. Eugene, if you can't get your house in order, you are going to be removed and the state will take over. Tony Bennett is looking over your shoulder, and I suspect he does not like what he sees. I am certain tomorrow will be another clip of yet another of the daily fights taking place all over IPS.
Why does the Blogmaster suck? Shouldn't this behavior suck? Why do you feel so strongly that the Blogmaster is not an IPS employee? These students need to be held accountable for their behavior. An IPS employee did not tape this, and an IPS employee was not involved in this fight. Granted, I did not see any teachers in the hallway. I, too, have heard that the IPS police have been encouraged to look the other way when it comes to fights. Too many discipline reports make Eugene White appear as if he does not have the control of our district like he claims he does.
The school police at our school claim that they have been instructed to play down the fights and treat them like horseplay. Then there is no record and Eugene looks better. It is only encouraging more fights and violence because the students have caught on that there are no consequences for fighting.
I didn't post the above "blogmaster sucks" comment, but I completely agree with it. I am absolutely disgusted that any adult, IPS employee or not, would exploit illegal videos of youth violence for their own anti-IPS agenda. You can discuss this without exploiting these children, and the creepy disturbing attitude of the blogmaster is far, far scarier than anything White or these kids are doing. Hey, blogmaster, would you post links to child porn to make kids accountable? What's the difference? You should be in jail.
Who is exploiting these kids when the violence and fights are ignored or hushed up to protect the image of an individual? This is especially true when the individual is being paid highly to make sure that there is a safe learning place and that teachers are able to teach and not be crowd control monitors all day long. Remember these fights are not recorded or posted on the internet by adults but by students. Some maybe to get attention but I sense an uprising among the good IPS students [the vast majority] who want Eugene White to do his job and get the schools under control so that teachers can teach and students can learn. All anyone has to do is go to www.youtube.com and put in the name of your high school and you can see amazing examples of out of control student behavior. The IPS board needs to remember that unless there is drastic action ASAP that Tony Bennett and the state of Indiana will be running IPS and Eugene White and the IPS school board will be seen by the rest of the state as the utter failures they are. I wonder how much better we would be if we had a school board who did their job and did not merely perform as bobbleheads for Eugene White.
Just as troublesome as the hallway violence are the Tech High School videos showing students just hanging out in class, walking around the room making a movie, doing nothing, etc. All the while the teacher just stands in one spot in the corner at her desk and does nothing. Some of these videos illustrate over 6 minutes in a classroom where absolutely nothing instructional is occuring, where the students are not the least bit engaged, etc. It seems to be the norm for the students. They're in control; the teacher is just room decoration.
I agree that teachers and administrators obviously need to be fired when these kinds of things happen on their watch. I just think these issues can be discussed without exploiting illegal videos of children.
If IPS administrators spent as much time attempting to take control of our high schools as they spend on hiding the truth about the high schools, then IPS might improve as a district. It's an administrative mindset. Their minds are set on veiling or denying the facts rather than shining the light of truth on the situation.
For every administrator who 'covers up' for a misbehaving student, we have a student who is enabled officially to continue with the misbehaviors.
We can debate and discuss these issues until the cows come home, but without the visual documentation presented in the videos, we'd never really believe what the truth is. If nothing else, these videos serve as documentation to refute what the Superintendent and the Board claim - that fighting seldom if ever occurs.
First, you Do realize that these videos are made and posted by juveniles not teachers or adults. Why aren't you asking why Eugene White or Sara Bogard at Tech permit this to happen without consequences to those out of control disruptive students. As a teacher, I can tell you that the majority of STUDENTS are sick of it and want order restored so they can learn. Bogard at Tech is more concerned about her flowers being planted on her campus.
We all know child porn and teen sex happen, and we don't need visual representation of that, do we? Even if it is filmed by other children? Why? Because it's sick. And we're supposed to have better decision-making skills than children do. If you think you need to watch youth violence to believe it happens, you are lying to yourself. You are psychologically disturbed, and you should seek professional help.
Lindsey Cluttter hasn't worked for Channel 13 for a couple of years. A lot of these videos are old especially when it comes to Broad Ripple. A lot of the hoodlums are long gone! We are not perfect, but it is blatantly unfair to use old footage to insinuate that something is still going on when it is not, at least not to the degree people think.
If a posted video upsets people this much, then why watch it? To all those complaining, I bet you clicked on the play button and submitted to watching at least a portion of the video. These videos are public knowledge and can be obtained by anyone. If a conversation regarding the fighting at Tech had not taken place within another thread, I highly doubt this link would have been posted. It was an extention of another discussion. I think that the fighting in schools is out of control and that students are allowed to get away with entirely too much, so why not allow the people that have to deal with in on a daily basis discuss it instead of belittling them? If you don't like it, don't watch it.
I only clicked on them long enough to determine which ones were actual fights and which ones were not, so I could report it to YouTube. I also plan to send messages to IPD and Blogspot if YouTube hasn't shut down the remaining ones by the end of the day. What you are doing is not only immoral, it is illegal.
I was thinking about e-mailing the police too, but I didn't think about Blogger. I think all the true fight videos are gone now, (a couple really did look like horseplay). Thanks to everyone who flagged these videos over the last couple of days.
If you want to flag this site for Blogger, you can click on the "Report Abuse" link at the top of the page. I didn't bother this time because YouTube is closing down the videos anyway. But just FYI.
99% of the adult human population would find it inappropriate to post or share videos of violence against children. It doesn't make IPS administration look bad. It makes IPS B.S. look bad. Why can't you see that? These are real children you're exploiting. What if one of these victims of violence was your child being bullied?
The point is what if one of students was your child and Eugene White and principals like Sara Bogard were denying it and attempting to cover it up. There is nothing illegal here as no one has posted the videos. Posters here have just proved the address where already posted videos can be viewed. IF you go to YouTube, you will see that many of them have been viewed by thousands of people. It is obvious that Eugene has his posse on here trying to intimidate people with inaccurate info. That is how a coverup works.
Gene White has been selling parents and community leaders the belief that he was changing IPS. He refused to answer the question of why more than 50% of the IPS dont work in the classroom. He and his administration have been total failures. Look at test scores, enrollment, and parent surveys.
there is a space on the six step discipline form for academic non-compliance, but try to use that space. It is a waste of time, but I do it anyway, after I've worked with/counseled the student, called and written the parent, it is my last resort. What do you do with students in the class who simply refuse to do the classwork? And once one student is allowed to sit there and do nothing, why can't the rest?
Sarah Bogard is one of the most dedicated and visionary principals I have ever had the privilege of working with/under; she has the students' needs upfront; whoever you are; you have a serious problem with myopia; you can't see her comprehensive, composite and all-encompassing view of the Tech project. There are so many wonderful programs at Tech, only God could do a better job. Get your facts, videos, student interviews, etc. before you judge!
None of the videos are illegal. The students posted them first on YouTube. Other people reposted them, they weren't copyrighted and they were in the public domain. They are not part of the educational record. If your reaction to these videos is any reflection on the quality of the education you deliver, then we, as a country, are doomed. If these videos are a representation of the quality of school management, then public education, as it is today, is doomed. Frankly if both events are correct, then we, as a public, have earned the failures.
They are not a copyright infringement. They are illegal because they exploit violence against children. Just like you can't pass around video of kids having sex, even if you're not the one who filmed it. You couldn't find a teacher in any district who would think this is okay. You are a really screwed-up individual.
Your disgust would be better directed toward the people who operate YouTube.
YouTube accepts these uncensored uploaded films for everyone to view. Evidently, they don't screen the films for content or for age. YouTube deserves your criticism. Go git 'em.
In the mean time, spend some time teaching these 'children who fight' that it's not smart to film their fights for posting on YouTube.
Who among us knows how many of these IPS student fighters are above the age of 17? I surely don't. Is it OK for a couple of 18 year old students fighting to have their brawl posted on YouTube?
Would you take the time to 'flag' high school fights from schools in Delaware, Iowa, Tennessee, New York, Idaho, etc.? Or, are you only interested in 'flagging' the IPS fights? If you're going to prevent the supposed exploitation of the high school innocents who fight and then post the film, then why not prevent this exploitation on a national basis?
This could become a cottage industry; a new career for a few ostrich-like enablers.
Sylvia, the post above about Bogard is so absurd that no one would ever believe you. You know that Bogard only bothers with buildings and grounds. Try and get her to discuss achievement, goals, objectives, teaching techniques, enforcing IPS polices...she has no clue.....she wants some new shrubbery, flowers and mulch and she wants it NOW!!!
To the Lindsay C. commentor these are new hoodlums in new fights. It appears people are having a difficult time with the reality of violence in IPS. Youtube is a fact, so get use to it. The violence may not be posted on this blog again but it will prevail on Youtube. The violence will also continue at our schools because visionary ,dedicated administrators allow it.
About mid-year after the building principals had their individual evaluation meetings with Dr. White, I asked my principal how it went.
The principal told me that she/he must be doing OK because Dr. White said that he'd not read any negative stories about our school or not seen our school mentioned in the local nightly TV news. That about sums up what Dr. White is looking for in a building principal ----- just keep the school out of the newspaper or the local television news. I believe many of the IPS principals and administrators are scared to death of White and scared of losing their jobs if they tell White the truth about the daily goings on in their schools.
The situation is analogous to the moral in "The Emperor’s New Suit" by Hans Christian Andersen. The Emperor being so intimidating to the regular people that not one of them had nerve to tell the Emperor that his new suit was nothing more than his birthday suit. So it goes with Eugene White. His people won't tell him the truth; maybe one of the kids will.
I'm an IPS parent, and my kids go to a magnet school, so I admit I probably don't see the worst of the worst that goes on in IPS. I also admit that most of the problems I HAVE had with IPS is not teachers or students, but administration (transportation, days off, losing paperwork, confused people at the office of student assignment, etc.) But I get the impression that many IPS employees feel the opposite of you, that IPS gets an unfairly negative rap, rather than an unfairly positive one. Videos of children fighting are certainly emotion provoking, and there is no question this kind of violence is disturbing. But I'm not sure that this is an indication of how bad IPS is or that the school fights that have been happening for centuries are now being recorded on cell phones. I absolutely do think that parents, teachers, school administrators, and IPS staff all need to take violence and bullying very seriously. But it seems silly to me to blame Eugene White for fights, many of which happened off school grounds or inside an unsupervised classroom of a teacher he can likely not fire. I'm not blaming teachers, but it's much more reasonable expect teachers to stop a fight in their classroom than it is to expect the superintendent to stop a fight from downtown.
I see your points, but we are blaming Dr. White indirectly. When minor offenses go unnoticed, misbehavior worsens. Our students are very savvy; they know what they can or cannot get away with in their schools. These minor offenses compile. The bullies are often not dealt with seriously until fights like the ones we have seen here occur. When Dr. White is more worried about how he looks in reports more than he is worried about student and teacher safety, then it is a problem. A problem that he started and he continues to let happen.
Frankly, IPS high school principals do not want Dr. White to know the true state of dysfunction their schools are in. The principals are caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to reporting the truth about student conduct at their schools. Dr. White appears to be more concerned with 'image' than with 'substance'. He'd rather his principals keep the high schools 'out of the news' so that he will look better to the community. This, in turn, prevents his principals from telling him the truth. They are scared for their jobs so they cover up the student misbehaviors and downplay the fights as 'just adolescent horseplay'.
While working at Arlington, I personally witnessed some students turning over a cold drink vending machine in the basement hallway. The incident was clearly visible from the security cameras. Things were totally out of control. Another teacher told Greenwood that 'the students are out of control'. Greenwood replied, "You CAN'T say that!" Greenwood had her head in the sand back then. Other principals have their heads in the sand today. Nothing good can come from this denial.
To the people that think that the fighting should be eliminated by the teachers, place yourself in a classroom when situations like that arise and then see how you feel. Unfortunately, a teacher can do everything in their power to control a situation but there is a roadblock. When more than one student decide to fight/completely disrupt the class it takes over the entire environment. Calling home does nothing (per the 6 step plan). Sometimes, the students will be removed from class (often times they are returned to class and the same behaviors continue)and sometimes you ask for assistance and nobody shows up. The incident described above with the vending machine being turned over is a perfect example. If only one or two teachers (and hypothetically say they are female) are in the area, what are they expected to do to control these grown boys who are oftentimes bigger than them? Sure, teachers can take names down but the overall expectations of what is allowed to occur during school and what isn't allowed to occur is out of a teachers control. Until IPS administrators decide to crack down and not let students run the halls and the schools, it's only going to get worse.
I know one principal that never kept his head in the sand. When Jeffrey White was a John Marshall, he kicked ass and never took names. He was an asshole with a purpose. I've been at Arlington High School for less than two months and there has been four principals. All kept their heads in the sand.
I remember this. One of the teachers who had a classroom right next to the 1st floor vending machine actually brought in a digital camera to record all the disruption that happened right outside her room. Toward the end of that school year things were so bad with the students running in the halls like herds of cattle that Kendricks, Bridgwaters, and some lame wussy IEA rep met with all the faculty in the mini auditorium. The pix of the students turning over the vending machine were shown, other pieces of documentation were shown to these three women who sat at the front of the auditorium. Bridgwaters sat there and chewed her gum and never uttered one word. Kendricks tried to smooth things over, and the IEA rep just sat there like a statue. All the while, Greenwood was hovering around like a scared mouse with darting glances at the teachers to see our reactions and who said what. At the end of the day, nothing changed. About a year later, Greenwood was removed as the principal, but things still have not changed for the better. Students are still in control of the building.
I am an elementary school teacher in IPS. I love teaching. Along with other elementary teachers, we have students fighting just like the fights in the high schools. If a child is so angry and filled with rage, other children should not be exposed to this behavior. This kind of behavior is abusive. In our society, children are removed from abusive situations and protected. Yet in our classrooms, innocent children must sit through hours filled with mean responses and behaviors from angry children. There are about 4 to 6 in each classroom. Interventions, like parent contact, the six steps,special discipline plans are immplemmented, yet these children continue their rage and disruption of learning in the classrrom. Dr. White needs to get them out of classrooms. Teachers then can teach children that have normal discipline problems. As head of IPS, he can do this. As we know, he is not doing this. As a good teacher, I will teach and deal with normal discipline. As for the 4 to 6 raged filled children, a psychologist needs to be present all the time to help heal their anger.
I think educators have got to get support from parents...first...and these parents have got to instill in their children the value of self worth. We need some parenting classes for those lacking in Parent 101.
It goes both ways, darling. If you treat my kids and I with hostility just for being in IPS to begin with, then I am not going to view you as a partner in my kids' education, am I? Respect is needed in all areas. Yes, often it is students and/or parents who lack respect. But often it is the teachers. If teachers think they are entitled to more respect than students and parents, then that highlights the break in the partnership, doesn't it?
You're proving my point. You're saying disrespect only goes one way. And that's completely false. If a teacher does not truly respect parents and students, there is no way the teacher should expect respect from them. There are some great IPS teachers. But many are hostile.
And your assumption about a misbehaving child is partially correct. One of my children is really smart. That's a good thing right? Not if you're in IPS. Because his teachers do not feel like it is their responsibility to engage him. So he acts up out of boredom. Not crazy bratty stuff. But the way you'd expect a 6-year-old boy to act if you took him to a boring meeting or a long car trip. He becomes obnoxious. His kindergarten teacher was bad, but his first grade teacher is a nightmare. She is against differentiation, and because I've mentioned it to her, I am the enemy. So she is super hard on my son while refusing to actually address the problem. So now I've been put in the position of teaching my child to not give much weight to what his teacher says/does. I've stopped giving him consequences for school misbehavior, because I am not able to separate the incidences that are within his control and the ones that are not. Thankfully, I think he will qualify for the GAT school next year. But otherwise, I can completely see how perfectly good parents end up in this position. And from what I hear from other parents this kind of thing is very common in IPS and not nearly as common outside of IPS.
To the parent above, you are not alone. I am a secondary education teacher, and I am absolutely amazed at the reactions I get when I treat parents as if they were all from Hamilton County. It is obvious this is not the way they are usually treated. They suddenly think I'm some miracle worker of a teacher, when I'm doing many of the same things other teachers have done in the classroom. But I get much better parent support and better behavior from students than many of my coworkers. It's a shame to admit it, but I'm sure you will be treated better at Sidener. I'm sorry you've gotten a couple of sourpusses in a row. I know how negatively that can impact things. Good luck to you.
I agree that we should treat all parents with respect even the angry parents. I have difficulty with your holding Hamilton County as some kind of benchmark for the proper standard of treating parents. I am certain that the parents of teen boys who had others' fingers shoved up their rectums while supervised by 3 coaches and then the system attempted to cover it up are not impressed with the way that they have been treated by the school and school officials.
You knew what I meant. I certainly don't hold Hamilton County as better, but many teachers here who have the most problems also have the most contempt for parents. I was simply pointing out that if you want the parental support of the "good districts" then you have to give parents the same respect they get in the "good districts." It is incredibly effective.
And your post is very likely libelous because the information you gave is not public record, and the accused are minors. So you are either breaching confidentiality laws or intentionally spreading malicious gossip about a minor.
You must have your head in a hole in the ground. First, I did not name any students and secondly what I stated has been reported repeatedly on televison and in print media. I have no inside info from Carmel. Your uppity comment about using Hamilton County as an example of "good districts" probably is the superior attitude you present when talking with IPS students and parents. If you think Hamilton County represents all that is good then get a job there.
You're not only libelous (you gave enough information from someone to know who your allegations were about), you're also a liar (you did not get that information from a legitimate news source) and apparently not very smart (your comments to the poster who mentioned Hamilton County show a complete lack of reading comprehension). I'll pray for you.
I'm the parent the secondary ed teacher was talking to when he/she mentioned Hamilton County. I think maybe there has been some confusion about because mentioning Hamilton County wasn't a dig at IPS parents, it was a dig at those who think IPS parents are less than other districts. He/She was agreeing with my complaint. I'm an IPS parent. Just wanted to try to clarify because it looks like thing things are getting a little bit twisted.
Thanks to the parent above. I'm glad to know you understood my meaning.
To "you're not only libelous" I appreciate your support, but I think it's counterproductive to combat hostility with more hostility, no?
To "You must have your head in a hole..." I am not uppity or superior. Quite the contrary, my whole point was that I see it as a huge disservice to treat IPS students and parents with less respect than that given to students and parents in the township districts. I was responding to a specific parent who had been treated with such hostility, both in an IPS school and on this forum.
To the parent of the smart child- I think your child will continue to have behavior problems. You might want to address the behavior. I have studied child behavior in relation to intelligence. Relating boredom for a highly intelligent child's bad behavior is like an old wives tale that needs to be clarified. Do some research.
I am still confused. If a child has bad behavior in IPS, the teacher is being disrespectful to the child and the parent by telling the parent. When my own children have behavior problems at school, I want to know and I give their teacher so much respect even if I do not like or agree with them (there have been many). I also never let my children know how I feel about the teacher. Not getting respect because a child goes to IPS is not a fair comment to all the wonderful IPS parents, children, and teachers I have worked with.
To the mom above, I'm a teacher, and whoever is arguing with you clearly is not. Obviously differentiation matters immensely, which you already know. Boredom is a common cause of misbehavior, particularly in the early grades, which again, you already know. And if you and the teacher are in disagreement, and the teacher doesn't want your input/involvement/concerns, what else can you do besides minimize her importance to your son? I have a hard time believing that there are really loving parents out there who will sacrifice their kids to mean people in the name of respect. But even if there are, you are certainly not crazy if you don't. I wouldn't.
If you haven't already spoken to the principal at the school, I highly encourage you to do so. Keep records of incidences and conversations with the teacher and send them to the principal so there is a paper trail, and encourage other parents to do the same. If you're the only one who seems to be having a problem, your son might be more of a behavior problem then you realize, or there might even be some bad chemistry between the teacher and your son. But if it is the teacher, the more parents who complain, the more likely the principal is to do something.
I'm the secondary ed teacher above. I agree you need to talk to the principal if you haven't yet.
To the "confused" poster above, if you believe the teacher should be the "boss" in all situations, then even if you don't hold her responsible for the boy's behavior, shouldn't she be held responsible for not educating him (differentiating?). And what kind of research have you done that disputes the link between engaging, respecting, and differentiating students and minimizing behavior problems? Can you provide a link? Because that's quite a leap from anything I've ever seen or read.
And it breaks my heart that a willing student and an invested parent are being disregarded. If we as teachers want more parental involvement, we have to respect it when we get it. If not, we certainly can't be surprised when students and parents eventually feel disconnected from the process, can we?
He doesn't have a behavior problem. He has a school problem and a teacher problem. I'm trying to solve that by applying for the GAT school.
I have not told the principal. Other parents say they have and it doesn't work but I will take your advice and do it in writing and document everything. It's not just me so maybe I can get other parents to do the same thing. Thank you.
Enough kids can be identified here. Why doesn't the fabulous IPS police do anything?
ReplyDeleteEugene White does not care about fights. Our mostly good IPS students are as tired of this out of control violence as the teachers and parents are. Broad Ripple is supposed to be a Magnet school for the serious students. This is strictly low class behavior. I hope that students will continue to film these and post to YOutube since Eugene is working so hard to deny that these kinds of fights are commonplace all over town. Eugene, if you can't get your house in order, you are going to be removed and the state will take over. Tony Bennett is looking over your shoulder, and I suspect he does not like what he sees. I am certain tomorrow will be another clip of yet another of the daily fights taking place all over IPS.
ReplyDeleteThe IPS Central Office chickens are coming home to roost.
ReplyDeleteWhite told the IPS police to look the other way. Too many reports make him look bad. Words from a top IPS police officer.
ReplyDeleteThe blogmaster sucks, big time. Just more proof that you are NOT an IPS teacher, employee, or parent.
ReplyDeleteVideos dont lie!!!
ReplyDeleteWhy does the Blogmaster suck? Shouldn't this behavior suck?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you feel so strongly that the Blogmaster is not an IPS employee?
These students need to be held accountable for their behavior. An IPS employee did not tape this, and an IPS employee was not involved in this fight. Granted, I did not see any teachers in the hallway.
I, too, have heard that the IPS police have been encouraged to look the other way when it comes to fights. Too many discipline reports make Eugene White appear as if he does not have the control of our district like he claims he does.
The school police at our school claim that they have been instructed to play down the fights and treat them like horseplay. Then there is no record and Eugene looks better. It is only encouraging more fights and violence because the students have caught on that there are no consequences for fighting.
ReplyDeleteI didn't post the above "blogmaster sucks" comment, but I completely agree with it. I am absolutely disgusted that any adult, IPS employee or not, would exploit illegal videos of youth violence for their own anti-IPS agenda. You can discuss this without exploiting these children, and the creepy disturbing attitude of the blogmaster is far, far scarier than anything White or these kids are doing. Hey, blogmaster, would you post links to child porn to make kids accountable? What's the difference? You should be in jail.
ReplyDeleteWho is exploiting these kids when the violence and fights are ignored or hushed up to protect the image of an individual? This is especially true when the individual is being paid highly to make sure that there is a safe learning place and that teachers are able to teach and not be crowd control monitors all day long. Remember these fights are not recorded or posted on the internet by adults but by students. Some maybe to get attention but I sense an uprising among the good IPS students [the vast majority] who want Eugene White to do his job and get the schools under control so that teachers can teach and students can learn. All anyone has to do is go to www.youtube.com and put in the name of your high school and you can see amazing examples of out of control student behavior. The IPS board needs to remember that unless there is drastic action ASAP that Tony Bennett and the state of Indiana will be running IPS and Eugene White and the IPS school board will be seen by the rest of the state as the utter failures they are. I wonder how much better we would be if we had a school board who did their job and did not merely perform as bobbleheads for Eugene White.
ReplyDeleteJust as troublesome as the hallway violence are the Tech High School videos showing students just hanging out in class, walking around the room making a movie, doing nothing, etc. All the while the teacher just stands in one spot in the corner at her desk and does nothing. Some of these videos illustrate over 6 minutes in a classroom where absolutely nothing instructional is occuring, where the students are not the least bit engaged, etc. It seems to be the norm for the students. They're in control; the teacher is just room decoration.
ReplyDeleteSeeing is believing.
I agree that teachers and administrators obviously need to be fired when these kinds of things happen on their watch. I just think these issues can be discussed without exploiting illegal videos of children.
ReplyDeleteIf IPS administrators spent as much time attempting to take control of our high schools as they spend on hiding the truth about the high schools, then IPS might improve as a district. It's an administrative mindset. Their minds are set on veiling or denying the facts rather than shining the light of truth on the situation.
ReplyDeleteFor every administrator who 'covers up' for a misbehaving student, we have a student who is enabled officially to continue with the misbehaviors.
We can debate and discuss these issues until the cows come home, but without the visual documentation presented in the videos, we'd never really believe what the truth is. If nothing else, these videos serve as documentation to refute what the Superintendent and the Board claim - that fighting seldom if ever occurs.
First, you Do realize that these videos are made and posted by juveniles not teachers or adults. Why aren't you asking why Eugene White or Sara Bogard at Tech permit this to happen without consequences to those out of control disruptive students. As a teacher, I can tell you that the majority of STUDENTS are sick of it and want order restored so they can learn. Bogard at Tech is more concerned about her flowers being planted on her campus.
ReplyDeleteWe all know child porn and teen sex happen, and we don't need visual representation of that, do we? Even if it is filmed by other children? Why? Because it's sick. And we're supposed to have better decision-making skills than children do. If you think you need to watch youth violence to believe it happens, you are lying to yourself. You are psychologically disturbed, and you should seek professional help.
ReplyDeleteLindsey Cluttter hasn't worked for Channel 13 for a couple of years. A lot of these videos are old especially when it comes to Broad Ripple. A lot of the hoodlums are long gone! We are not perfect, but it is blatantly unfair to use old footage to insinuate that something is still going on when it is not, at least not to the degree people think.
ReplyDeleteIf a posted video upsets people this much, then why watch it? To all those complaining, I bet you clicked on the play button and submitted to watching at least a portion of the video. These videos are public knowledge and can be obtained by anyone. If a conversation regarding the fighting at Tech had not taken place within another thread, I highly doubt this link would have been posted. It was an extention of another discussion. I think that the fighting in schools is out of control and that students are allowed to get away with entirely too much, so why not allow the people that have to deal with in on a daily basis discuss it instead of belittling them? If you don't like it, don't watch it.
ReplyDeleteIt's not still going on? Are you IN the public schools??????
ReplyDeleteI only clicked on them long enough to determine which ones were actual fights and which ones were not, so I could report it to YouTube. I also plan to send messages to IPD and Blogspot if YouTube hasn't shut down the remaining ones by the end of the day. What you are doing is not only immoral, it is illegal.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about e-mailing the police too, but I didn't think about Blogger. I think all the true fight videos are gone now, (a couple really did look like horseplay). Thanks to everyone who flagged these videos over the last couple of days.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwM2h4fi-wo
ReplyDeletegirls fighting at arlington in september
more arlington fights
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv05S-c6Ul4
If you want to flag this site for Blogger, you can click on the "Report Abuse" link at the top of the page. I didn't bother this time because YouTube is closing down the videos anyway. But just FYI.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know what the outcome of this IPS bus incident was?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juh2AYRPxgE
Jane, Jackie, and Prudence are pissed. Their dirty draws are hanging in the wind
ReplyDeleteHere's our biggest fight as IPS employees -- let's not lose focus -- our biggest fight is with White!!!
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHr1vWoA3FU&feature=youtube_gdata
99% of the adult human population would find it inappropriate to post or share videos of violence against children. It doesn't make IPS administration look bad. It makes IPS B.S. look bad. Why can't you see that? These are real children you're exploiting. What if one of these victims of violence was your child being bullied?
ReplyDelete@What if one of these victims of violence was your child being bullied?
ReplyDeleteI'd do what these parents did...contact the IPS school principal, get no response, and then go to the media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juh2AYRPxgE
The point is what if one of students was your child and Eugene White and principals like Sara Bogard were denying it and attempting to cover it up. There is nothing illegal here as no one has posted the videos. Posters here have just proved the address where already posted videos can be viewed. IF you go to YouTube, you will see that many of them have been viewed by thousands of people. It is obvious that Eugene has his posse on here trying to intimidate people with inaccurate info. That is how a coverup works.
ReplyDeleteGene White has been selling parents and community leaders the belief that he was changing IPS. He refused to answer the question of why more than 50% of the IPS dont work in the classroom. He and his administration have been total failures. Look at test scores, enrollment, and parent surveys.
ReplyDeletethere is a space on the six step discipline form for academic non-compliance, but try to use that space. It is a waste of time, but I do it anyway, after I've worked with/counseled the student, called and written the parent, it is my last resort. What do you do with students in the class who simply refuse to do the classwork? And once one student is allowed to sit there and do nothing, why can't the rest?
ReplyDeleteTwo post up. It should read 50% of the IPS employees dont work in the classroom.
ReplyDeleteSarah Bogard is one of the most dedicated and visionary principals I have ever had the privilege of working with/under; she has the students' needs upfront; whoever you are; you have a serious problem with myopia; you can't see her comprehensive, composite and all-encompassing view of the Tech project. There are so many wonderful programs at Tech, only God could do a better job. Get your facts, videos, student interviews, etc. before you judge!
ReplyDeleteNone of the videos are illegal. The students posted them first on YouTube. Other people reposted them, they weren't copyrighted and they were in the public domain. They are not part of the educational record. If your reaction to these videos is any reflection on the quality of the education you deliver, then we, as a country, are doomed. If these videos are a representation of the quality of school management, then public education, as it is today, is doomed. Frankly if both events are correct, then we, as a public, have earned the failures.
ReplyDeleteThey are not a copyright infringement. They are illegal because they exploit violence against children. Just like you can't pass around video of kids having sex, even if you're not the one who filmed it. You couldn't find a teacher in any district who would think this is okay. You are a really screwed-up individual.
ReplyDelete@You are a really screwed-up individual.
ReplyDeleteYour disgust would be better directed toward the people who operate YouTube.
YouTube accepts these uncensored uploaded films for everyone to view. Evidently, they don't screen the films for content or for age. YouTube deserves your criticism. Go git 'em.
In the mean time, spend some time teaching these 'children who fight' that it's not smart to film their fights for posting on YouTube.
Who among us knows how many of these IPS student fighters are above the age of 17? I surely don't. Is it OK for a couple of 18 year old students fighting to have their brawl posted on YouTube?
Would you take the time to 'flag' high school fights from schools in Delaware, Iowa, Tennessee, New York, Idaho, etc.? Or, are you only interested in 'flagging' the IPS fights? If you're going to prevent the supposed exploitation of the high school innocents who fight and then post the film, then why not prevent this exploitation on a national basis?
This could become a cottage industry; a new career for a few ostrich-like enablers.
Sylvia, the post above about Bogard is so absurd that no one would ever believe you. You know that Bogard only bothers with buildings and grounds. Try and get her to discuss achievement, goals, objectives, teaching techniques, enforcing IPS polices...she has no clue.....she wants some new shrubbery, flowers and mulch and she wants it NOW!!!
ReplyDeleteTo the Lindsay C. commentor these are new hoodlums in new fights. It appears people are having a difficult time with the reality of violence in IPS. Youtube is a fact, so get use to it. The violence may not be posted on this blog again but it will prevail on Youtube. The violence will also continue at our schools because visionary ,dedicated administrators allow it.
ReplyDeleteAbout mid-year after the building principals had their individual evaluation meetings with Dr. White, I asked my principal how it went.
ReplyDeleteThe principal told me that she/he must be doing OK because Dr. White said that he'd not read any negative stories about our school or not seen our school mentioned in the local nightly TV news. That about sums up what Dr. White is looking for in a building principal ----- just keep the school out of the newspaper or the local television news. I believe many of the IPS principals and administrators are scared to death of White and scared of losing their jobs if they tell White the truth about the daily goings on in their schools.
The situation is analogous to the moral in "The Emperor’s New Suit" by Hans Christian Andersen. The Emperor being so intimidating to the regular people that not one of them had nerve to tell the Emperor that his new suit was nothing more than his birthday suit. So it goes with Eugene White. His people won't tell him the truth; maybe one of the kids will.
I'm an IPS parent, and my kids go to a magnet school, so I admit I probably don't see the worst of the worst that goes on in IPS. I also admit that most of the problems I HAVE had with IPS is not teachers or students, but administration (transportation, days off, losing paperwork, confused people at the office of student assignment, etc.) But I get the impression that many IPS employees feel the opposite of you, that IPS gets an unfairly negative rap, rather than an unfairly positive one. Videos of children fighting are certainly emotion provoking, and there is no question this kind of violence is disturbing. But I'm not sure that this is an indication of how bad IPS is or that the school fights that have been happening for centuries are now being recorded on cell phones. I absolutely do think that parents, teachers, school administrators, and IPS staff all need to take violence and bullying very seriously. But it seems silly to me to blame Eugene White for fights, many of which happened off school grounds or inside an unsupervised classroom of a teacher he can likely not fire. I'm not blaming teachers, but it's much more reasonable expect teachers to stop a fight in their classroom than it is to expect the superintendent to stop a fight from downtown.
ReplyDeleteI see your points, but we are blaming Dr. White indirectly.
ReplyDeleteWhen minor offenses go unnoticed, misbehavior worsens. Our students are very savvy; they know what they can or cannot get away with in their schools.
These minor offenses compile. The bullies are often not dealt with seriously until fights like the ones we have seen here occur.
When Dr. White is more worried about how he looks in reports more than he is worried about student and teacher safety, then it is a problem. A problem that he started and he continues to let happen.
Frankly, IPS high school principals do not want Dr. White to know the true state of dysfunction their schools are in. The principals are caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to reporting the truth about student conduct at their schools. Dr. White appears to be more concerned with 'image' than with 'substance'. He'd rather his principals keep the high schools 'out of the news' so that he will look better to the community. This, in turn, prevents his principals from telling him the truth. They are scared for their jobs so they cover up the student misbehaviors and downplay the fights as 'just adolescent horseplay'.
ReplyDeleteWhile working at Arlington, I personally witnessed some students turning over a cold drink vending machine in the basement hallway. The incident was clearly visible from the security cameras. Things were totally out of control. Another teacher told Greenwood that 'the students are out of control'. Greenwood replied, "You CAN'T say that!" Greenwood had her head in the sand back then. Other principals have their heads in the sand today. Nothing good can come from this denial.
To the people that think that the fighting should be eliminated by the teachers, place yourself in a classroom when situations like that arise and then see how you feel. Unfortunately, a teacher can do everything in their power to control a situation but there is a roadblock. When more than one student decide to fight/completely disrupt the class it takes over the entire environment. Calling home does nothing (per the 6 step plan). Sometimes, the students will be removed from class (often times they are returned to class and the same behaviors continue)and sometimes you ask for assistance and nobody shows up.
ReplyDeleteThe incident described above with the vending machine being turned over is a perfect example. If only one or two teachers (and hypothetically say they are female) are in the area, what are they expected to do to control these grown boys who are oftentimes bigger than them? Sure, teachers can take names down but the overall expectations of what is allowed to occur during school and what isn't allowed to occur is out of a teachers control. Until IPS administrators decide to crack down and not let students run the halls and the schools, it's only going to get worse.
I know one principal that never kept his head in the sand. When Jeffrey White was a John Marshall, he kicked ass and never took names. He was an asshole with a purpose. I've been at Arlington High School for less than two months and there has been four principals. All kept their heads in the sand.
ReplyDeletePlease name the four principals appointed in just two months at Arlington. I'm curious.
ReplyDeleteRe: the vending machine incident at Arlington
ReplyDeleteI remember this. One of the teachers who had a classroom right next to the 1st floor vending machine actually brought in a digital camera to record all the disruption that happened right outside her room. Toward the end of that school year things were so bad with the students running in the halls like herds of cattle that Kendricks, Bridgwaters, and some lame wussy IEA rep met with all the faculty in the mini auditorium. The pix of the students turning over the vending machine were shown, other pieces of documentation were shown to these three women who sat at the front of the auditorium. Bridgwaters sat there and chewed her gum and never uttered one word. Kendricks tried to smooth things over, and the IEA rep just sat there like a statue. All the while, Greenwood was hovering around like a scared mouse with darting glances at the teachers to see our reactions and who said what. At the end of the day, nothing changed. About a year later, Greenwood was removed as the principal, but things still have not changed for the better. Students are still in control of the building.
Four Principals at Arlington in two years:
ReplyDeleteGreg Allen 4 months
Steve Papesh 6 months
Dexter Suggs 4 months
Cansandra Shipp 2 months
I am an elementary school teacher in IPS. I love teaching. Along with other elementary teachers, we have students fighting just like the fights in the high schools. If a child is so angry and filled with rage, other children should not be exposed to this behavior.
ReplyDeleteThis kind of behavior is abusive. In our society, children are removed from abusive situations and protected. Yet in our classrooms, innocent children must sit through hours filled with mean responses and behaviors from angry children. There are about 4 to 6 in each classroom. Interventions, like parent contact, the six steps,special discipline plans are immplemmented, yet these children continue their rage and disruption of learning in the classrrom. Dr. White needs to get them out of classrooms. Teachers then can teach children that have normal discipline problems. As head of IPS, he can do this. As we know, he is not doing this. As a good teacher, I will teach and deal with normal discipline. As for the 4 to 6 raged filled children, a psychologist needs to be present all the time to help heal their anger.
I think educators have got to get support from parents...first...and these parents have got to instill in their children the value of self worth. We need some parenting classes for those lacking in Parent 101.
ReplyDeleteIt goes both ways, darling. If you treat my kids and I with hostility just for being in IPS to begin with, then I am not going to view you as a partner in my kids' education, am I? Respect is needed in all areas. Yes, often it is students and/or parents who lack respect. But often it is the teachers. If teachers think they are entitled to more respect than students and parents, then that highlights the break in the partnership, doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteIt seems from the above comment, a teacher complaining to a parent about their child's behavior is being hostile or being disrespectful.
ReplyDeleteYou're proving my point. You're saying disrespect only goes one way. And that's completely false. If a teacher does not truly respect parents and students, there is no way the teacher should expect respect from them. There are some great IPS teachers. But many are hostile.
ReplyDeleteAnd your assumption about a misbehaving child is partially correct. One of my children is really smart. That's a good thing right? Not if you're in IPS. Because his teachers do not feel like it is their responsibility to engage him. So he acts up out of boredom. Not crazy bratty stuff. But the way you'd expect a 6-year-old boy to act if you took him to a boring meeting or a long car trip. He becomes obnoxious. His kindergarten teacher was bad, but his first grade teacher is a nightmare. She is against differentiation, and because I've mentioned it to her, I am the enemy. So she is super hard on my son while refusing to actually address the problem. So now I've been put in the position of teaching my child to not give much weight to what his teacher says/does. I've stopped giving him consequences for school misbehavior, because I am not able to separate the incidences that are within his control and the ones that are not. Thankfully, I think he will qualify for the GAT school next year. But otherwise, I can completely see how perfectly good parents end up in this position. And from what I hear from other parents this kind of thing is very common in IPS and not nearly as common outside of IPS.
To the parent above, you are not alone. I am a secondary education teacher, and I am absolutely amazed at the reactions I get when I treat parents as if they were all from Hamilton County. It is obvious this is not the way they are usually treated. They suddenly think I'm some miracle worker of a teacher, when I'm doing many of the same things other teachers have done in the classroom. But I get much better parent support and better behavior from students than many of my coworkers. It's a shame to admit it, but I'm sure you will be treated better at Sidener. I'm sorry you've gotten a couple of sourpusses in a row. I know how negatively that can impact things. Good luck to you.
ReplyDeleteI agree that we should treat all parents with respect even the angry parents. I have difficulty with your holding Hamilton County as some kind of benchmark for the proper standard of treating parents. I am certain that the parents of teen boys who had others' fingers shoved up their rectums while supervised by 3 coaches and then the system attempted to cover it up are not impressed with the way that they have been treated by the school and school officials.
ReplyDeleteYou knew what I meant. I certainly don't hold Hamilton County as better, but many teachers here who have the most problems also have the most contempt for parents. I was simply pointing out that if you want the parental support of the "good districts" then you have to give parents the same respect they get in the "good districts." It is incredibly effective.
ReplyDeleteAnd your post is very likely libelous because the information you gave is not public record, and the accused are minors. So you are either breaching confidentiality laws or intentionally spreading malicious gossip about a minor.
You must have your head in a hole in the ground. First, I did not name any students and secondly what I stated has been reported repeatedly on televison and in print media. I have no inside info from Carmel. Your uppity comment about using Hamilton County as an example of "good districts" probably is the superior attitude you present when talking with IPS students and parents. If you think Hamilton County represents all that is good then get a job there.
ReplyDeleteYou're not only libelous (you gave enough information from someone to know who your allegations were about), you're also a liar (you did not get that information from a legitimate news source) and apparently not very smart (your comments to the poster who mentioned Hamilton County show a complete lack of reading comprehension). I'll pray for you.
ReplyDeleteI'm the parent the secondary ed teacher was talking to when he/she mentioned Hamilton County. I think maybe there has been some confusion about because mentioning Hamilton County wasn't a dig at IPS parents, it was a dig at those who think IPS parents are less than other districts. He/She was agreeing with my complaint. I'm an IPS parent. Just wanted to try to clarify because it looks like thing things are getting a little bit twisted.
ReplyDeleteThanks to the parent above. I'm glad to know you understood my meaning.
ReplyDeleteTo "you're not only libelous" I appreciate your support, but I think it's counterproductive to combat hostility with more hostility, no?
To "You must have your head in a hole..." I am not uppity or superior. Quite the contrary, my whole point was that I see it as a huge disservice to treat IPS students and parents with less respect than that given to students and parents in the township districts. I was responding to a specific parent who had been treated with such hostility, both in an IPS school and on this forum.
To the parent of the smart child- I think your child will continue to have behavior problems. You might want to address the behavior. I have studied child behavior in relation to intelligence. Relating boredom for a highly intelligent child's bad behavior is like an old wives tale that needs to be clarified. Do some research.
ReplyDeleteI am still confused. If a child has bad behavior in IPS, the teacher is being disrespectful to the child and the parent by telling the parent. When my own children have behavior problems at school, I want to know and I give their teacher so much respect even if I do not like or agree with them (there have been many). I also never let my children know how I feel about the teacher. Not getting respect because a child goes to IPS is not a fair comment to all the wonderful IPS parents, children, and teachers I have worked with.
ReplyDeleteTo the mom above, I'm a teacher, and whoever is arguing with you clearly is not. Obviously differentiation matters immensely, which you already know. Boredom is a common cause of misbehavior, particularly in the early grades, which again, you already know. And if you and the teacher are in disagreement, and the teacher doesn't want your input/involvement/concerns, what else can you do besides minimize her importance to your son? I have a hard time believing that there are really loving parents out there who will sacrifice their kids to mean people in the name of respect. But even if there are, you are certainly not crazy if you don't. I wouldn't.
ReplyDeleteIf you haven't already spoken to the principal at the school, I highly encourage you to do so. Keep records of incidences and conversations with the teacher and send them to the principal so there is a paper trail, and encourage other parents to do the same. If you're the only one who seems to be having a problem, your son might be more of a behavior problem then you realize, or there might even be some bad chemistry between the teacher and your son. But if it is the teacher, the more parents who complain, the more likely the principal is to do something.
I'm the secondary ed teacher above. I agree you need to talk to the principal if you haven't yet.
ReplyDeleteTo the "confused" poster above, if you believe the teacher should be the "boss" in all situations, then even if you don't hold her responsible for the boy's behavior, shouldn't she be held responsible for not educating him (differentiating?). And what kind of research have you done that disputes the link between engaging, respecting, and differentiating students and minimizing behavior problems? Can you provide a link? Because that's quite a leap from anything I've ever seen or read.
And it breaks my heart that a willing student and an invested parent are being disregarded. If we as teachers want more parental involvement, we have to respect it when we get it. If not, we certainly can't be surprised when students and parents eventually feel disconnected from the process, can we?
He doesn't have a behavior problem. He has a school problem and a teacher problem. I'm trying to solve that by applying for the GAT school.
ReplyDeleteI have not told the principal. Other parents say they have and it doesn't work but I will take your advice and do it in writing and document everything. It's not just me so maybe I can get other parents to do the same thing. Thank you.