This is the second article sent to IPS B.S. on the new segregation taking place in Indianapolis Public Schools.
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We would like to thank all the writers who have posted responses to “IPS Apartheid?” Unfortunately the conversation got sidetracked (i.e., parents, or “holding back excellence”) from the main argument of our post:
Let’s get back to the issues. IPS is attempting to draw the white and black middle class back to the city. The “social cleansing” of the system was accomplished by school uniforms. Now, IPS students will not appear so frightening. Any other problem students will be sent to the alternatives.
With the opening of IPS high school magnets, has Marion County become two school systems, separate and unequal based on class and ability (not race), with an upper tier of IPS magnets and special programs (i.e., CFI/Key); all other township schools, and their magnets, special programs; all the private and parochial schools; all charters; and, any other special programs—and a lower tier of all other K-12 IPS schools (especially the community high schools [“hood schools” as someone wrote]), programs, and alternatives. Do these tiers represent equal opportunity for all Marion County students?
And the essence of the argument: Why did IPS put the gifted & talented program at #59 instead of Longfellow School? Or, it can be expressed this way: Which schools have ROTC? Shortridge? Park Tutor? Scecina? Washington Community School?
P.S.
Since we placed alternatives as lower tier schools, where are all the 20+ IPS alternatives schools and programs? Who goes there? Do students stay there? Are “bad” teachers sent there or threatened to be sent to an alternative? What’s IPS hiding there? No one we know knows what’s happening in these places--they are not on IPS website? Are students at alternatives counted in attendance and graduation rates, and test scores of their “homeschool” from which they are sent? Are there text books the same qualiyt as the magnets? Do the staff and/or teachers have degrees/endorsements in alternative education? Are physics or chemistry offered in the science labs at the alternatives? Do students take gym? Can anyone help uncover and explain these mysterious IPS projects?
Friday, August 28, 2009
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We know your complaints? What is your solution? When you have some, please get back to us. Please!
ReplyDeleteThat said, you make no sense...none.
Drawing middle class families back to the city is a bad thing?
School uniforms is 'social cleansing'? Are you serious? You want to encourage "frightening" looking students as opposed to looking studious?
ROTC programs are placed where the demand is for their program.
There was NO student and/or parent demand for ROTC at JMCHS.
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly ROTC is a fine program and offers structure and organization to many students' lives; however, there was no demand at Marshall. That decision came from the Ed Center. In fact, ROTC is the only elective these particular community school students have.
Enforcing a uniform dress code did indirectly serve as a 'social cleansing' agent, for lack of a better term. Those students and their parents who were adamantly opposed to uniform dress removed their children from IPS. Many of these students indeed were the 'frightening' looking students, again for lack of a better term.
All in all, a little social/cultural restructuring has been a good thing for IPS. Now, if only the community schools could have some electives and the full range of courses offered by the traditional high schools, then equity would exist for the high school students.
We did address your topic. You simply disagree with us. We are not confused or sidetracked. I agree with the poster in the other thread who stated magnets are solutions for the equity problems, not symptoms of it. Putting the gifted and talented school in an area known for sending their kids to private school is a smart move in my opinion. It challenges the idea that IPS is only for poor kids, while also being more likely to attract students who might not otherwise attend the public school system. The magnet schools are not all or even mostly white, nor are they all or even mostly wealth, so I don't know where the apartheid and elitist comparisons are coming from. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think most people would disagree with you on this.
ReplyDeleteThe students are separate and the opportunities at the schools are not equal.
ReplyDeletea·part·heid (-pärtht, -ht)
ReplyDeleten.
1. An official policy of racial segregation formerly practiced in the Republic of South Africa, involving political, legal, and economic discrimination against nonwhites.
2. A policy or practice of separating or segregating groups.
3. The condition of being separated from others; segregation.
I guess it fits with definition 2 and 3
But the opportunities to get INTO each school is equal. Nobody is keeping ANYONE out of magnet schools or separating or segregating anyone into groups.
ReplyDeleteYour comparison is like saying it's unfair to give students the option of taking orchestra or band because not all students choose them and the students that do choose them are more likely to be Caucasian or Asian than Hispanic or African-American.
How can you say that the conversation became "sidetracked" by discussing parents? Parents are an integral part of any issue involving education. Just because it may be a part of the equation that the school system can have little direct influence on does not invalidate it as a major factor. The bottom line is if the majority of parents would do their part, this entire conversation would be non-existent.
ReplyDeleteI am a parent. No one got sidetracked
ReplyDeleteI will agree that our society for the most part is socio-economically and racially isolated but school districts really can't fix this reality unless the government starts telling people where they can live. Magnet programs do help. They are not just for smart, middle class, and/or white kids--in fact the magnet programs reflect the diversity we would like to see everywhere.
What? Each magnet school shuted down all self-contained classes and has only inclusion classes, a few specks of the profound students. No grades under a "C" are allowed or you are out the door (LD's are gone). Then we are spending $400,000 on the Video/Broadcast class at Broad Ripple High School? Do the other students have that chance, no! Yes, we are closing the door on many students you are unique and might have the need for a self-contained class.
ReplyDeleteIf a student requires self-contained classes, then why does it matter which school holds the self-contained classes. They are, by definition, self-contained.
ReplyDeleteThere are no longer any self contained classes in IPS for any students regardless of their needs or situation - MI EH LD non-readers. IPS has decided to go to all inclusion. All of these students are also expected to learn the same material at each grade level as the students without disabilities, and are to take the ISTEP. This is what I have been told this year.
ReplyDeleteBoth my children have learning disabilities and both are in magnet programs--and I personally see nothing wrong with expecting students to get Cs in order to stay in a magnet program.
ReplyDeleteAnd BRHS has a media communications program--that would be film, video, radio, etc. and last time I checked one needs equipment to have a program in film, video, radio, etc.
You people kill me--it's as it you don't want any successful programs in IPS...geez.
Stop pulling everyone else down--that is what IPS has done for years and why so many families have fled.
"There are no longer any self contained classes in IPS for any students regardless of their needs or situation - MI EH LD non-readers. IPS has decided to go to all inclusion. All of these students are also expected to learn the same material at each grade level as the students without disabilities, and are to take the ISTEP. This is what I have been told this year."
ReplyDeleteOh sweetie, you believe what they tell you? I have a lovely bridge I want to sell you. Many schools still have self contained classes. And there is a program that bridged students between MO and MI, also self contained. Self contained classes are self contained for academic subjects only, electives and special area classes are taken with the general population of students.
And to the poster above, your kids got theirs, so what if somebody elses kid gets nothing.
There are self-contained Sp Ed high school classes in all schools but Howe. Howe has gone straight inclusion this school year.
ReplyDeleteI believe it makes more sense to have a certified content area teacher provide instruction for the students in English and Math. The Sp Ed inclusion teacher is not a content area person, but rather, a methods person whose job is to provide the methods and accommodations to the students with disabilities while they're in the gen ed content area class. Sometimes this works; other times it does not. Much of the success of full inclusion depends upon the 'chemistry' between the Gen Ed and the Sp Ed teachers.
Frankly many believe that students who require a self-contained setting in high school should not be earning credits toward a Core 40 Diploma because the content frequently is so modified that the integrity of the course content is compromised. Indiana has a basic high school diploma which should be used with self-contained high school students. The Core 40 diploma is not for everyone.
Do you live in the IPS district? Do you have kids in IPS? Probably not. And if your kids attend school in the homogeneous suburbs or a private school then it's your kids who are getting theirs while the rest of us have to fight for everything you take for granted.
ReplyDeleteThe point is that there all types families in IPS with different wants and needs, and all types of kids with different learning styles. IPS has an obligation to meet the needs of all and that is the whole point of having choices...the cookie cutter approach doesn't work and never has.
And as I've mentioned before, the magnets in IPS reflect real diversity--both socio-economic and racial.
Quote: "the cookie cutter approach doesn't work and never has."
ReplyDeleteI agree! Right now there are special education students who have IQ's hovering around 60 who are enrolled in Algebra II classes in our IPS high schools. These students frequently do not possess even rudimentary math skills such as subtraction with regrouping. Yet, IPS sees fit to subject these students with mental/cognitive disabilities to the foreign language of Algebra II as required for the Core 40 Diploma and to hold their teachers accountable for their learning the content.
Common sense has flown the coop in IPS with its cookie cutter requirements for all students to earn Core 40 diplomas despite their abilities, their needs, and their innate differences.
TO "We know your complaints? What is your solution? When you have some, please get back to us. Please!" Our solution is equal educational opportunity for all children. Equal educational opportunity is not having an equal opportunity to go to a magnet or go to a dropout factory.
ReplyDelete"That said, you make no sense...none." Hey, not questioning this issue is what makes no sense. Please Google: "School Choice and Segregation by Race, Class and Achievement” on Durham, NC schools and get back to us.
"Drawing middle class families back to the city is a bad thing?" Hey, this is not the issue. We want a variety of families/students to return to IPS. The issue is equal educational opportunity. As well, how come IPS is not appealing to the middle-class families in the western part of Marion County to attend Washington Community High School? Isn’t WCHS an outstanding school to which ANY family would love the opportunity to send their child/ren? IPS knows the educational opportunity among the community schools and the magnets are not equal.
"School uniforms is 'social cleansing'? Are you serious? You want to encourage "frightening" looking students as opposed to looking studious?" IPS students “looking” studious vs. IPS student “being” studious: this is all about PR and appearances, not essence…and children from the inner-city know this. Ask them. Come down and hang out and ask them. From the children we talk to uniforms have changed nothing in IPS. What changes is the enforcement: sometimes strict some time lax. The children are just going along; there’s been no fundamental change as was suggested in 2007.
"ROTC programs are placed where the demand is for their program." Really? I guess we can quote you on this.
Finally, the writer who immediately commented on your response also offers an insightful retort to your posting.
TO “We did address your topic”: Magnets are great, it’s just they are limited as to how many students can attend and by the fact it is common knowledge they provide opportunities not provided at the “hood” schools (as someone coined the community schools Washington, Howe or Arlington) which do not have some electives and the full range of courses of North Central or Warren. Also, 2 of the 3 main IPS magnet high schools have just opened. We won’t know who’ll end up there for a while. We do know, however, a main purpose of the magnets (and school uniforms) was to draw the black and white middle classes back to IPS. So, class not race is the issue. Please Google: "School Choice and Segregation by Race, Class and Achievement” on Durham, NC schools and get back to us.
ReplyDeleteWe are not against a gifted and talented magnet at #59, we just one on the other side of the tracks at #28. Also, our point about ROTC was validated. Finally, many of those who are writing do agree with this thesis. We are surprised at the support.
TO “But the opportunities to get INTO each school is equal. Nobody is keeping ANYONE out of magnet schools or separating or segregating anyone into groups.” You are attempting to stray from the issue. To iterate, the equal opportunity to get INTO each school is not the question. Having equal opportunities to get INTO a dropout factory and a magnet is not equal educational opportunity. Equal educational opportunity is having equal educational opportunity at Horizons Alternative and at Shortridge. This is presently not the case.
TO “I am a parent. No one got sidetracked. I will agree that our society for the most part is socio-economically and racially isolated but school districts really can't fix this reality unless the government starts telling people where they can live.” School districts can fix this. Our society must provide equal educational opportunity to all children. Thus, it does not matter where a family/child lives when the school they attend has the same equal educational opportunity as any other school. This is America’s promise to it citizens. See?
TO “You people kill me--it's as it you don't want any successful programs in IPS...geez.” We are not against some “…successful programs in IPS…” What we are against is the fact that all IPS programs are not successful: true equal educational opportunity would do this.
TO “And as I've mentioned before, the magnets in IPS reflect real diversity--both socio-economic and racial.” As we have also mentioned before, let’s see how this pans out in the next 10 years. Let’s see who ends up where. As for now, you are correct, the magnets reflect real diversity: IPS has a variety of good, mediocre, and poor schools.
I see John and Jose have been here sprouting their drop-out factory conspiracies.
ReplyDeleteThe uniform dress code was never explicitly or implicitly intended to draw black and white middle class families back to IPS.
ReplyDeleteThe dress code is intended to teach children self-discipline: how you look affects how act and learn.
And just who are the "we" referenced in these single posts? I've never heard the principal at School 28 says that she, her staff or even her parents support or even want a G&T program in that building.
If you are truly supportive of IPS, understand its myriad complex issues all inherant to poverty, you would not refer ot its high schools as "drop out factories." That is an insult to the many hard-working educators who toil with little recognition in those buildings.
Is that you,too, Rishawn?
ReplyDeleteQuote from another post:
ReplyDelete"School districts can fix this. Our society must provide equal educational opportunity to all children. Thus, it does not matter where a family/child lives when the school they attend has the same equal educational opportunity as any other school. This is America’s promise to it citizens. See?"
Just because a child is provided the same opportunities does not mean that child will get the same benefits from them. Living in a bad or poor neighborhood does not necessarily make someone a bad parent. Any parent can participate in their child's education regardless of economic or social conditions. Therefore, simply providing the same opportunities in all areas will not fix the problem. If the parent does not do their part, the student is at a significant disadvantage even if they live in a neighborhood full of $500,000 homes. This is what is happening in IPS as well as most other urban school systems. Without proper parental support, even the most well funded school in the most exclusive area will have poor results. This is what is at the root of all the challenges IPS is facing. This is the real problem for which all the multitude of different programs over the years have been attempting to compensate. No program or dollar amount can force a person to be a proper parent.
Yes. Good idea. It could be Rishwan. We used ideas for “IPS Apartheid” from:
ReplyDeleterishawnbiddle.org/RRB/Starfiles/leftbehind/Dropout_factories.pdf
We also got information about the “dropout factory” concept from Coalition of Essential Schools website “Indianapolis' Commitment to Small High Schools: Finding New Ways to Say Yes” by Jill Davidson Horace Summer 2005, Vol. 21 No. 3
See www.essentialschools.org/cs/resources/view/ces_res/373
Posted earlier: "There are no longer any self contained classes in IPS for any students regardless of their needs or situation - MI EH LD non-readers. IPS has decided to go to all inclusion. All of these students are also expected to learn the same material at each grade level as the students without disabilities, and are to take the ISTEP. This is what I have been told this year."
ReplyDeleteThis kind of thinking is what has caused regular classroom to slow down. These kids are interfering with the progress. It is hard to follow a pacing guide and teach the necessary information when the Spec Ed teacher is slowing you down. Saying, "My kids can't keep up."
If Dr. White truely wants test scores to go back up. Then remove these students back to the self contained classrooms. They (students) will not feel inferior and act up. They can go at the pace they (Spec Ed) feel comfortable at. The regular Ed Teacher can move a pace that will not bore or regular and upper students challenging them without loosing the others.
The students are causing the regular and exceptional students to be left behind. They get bored waiting for the others to catch up.
Just my opinion and observation. To much "Don't hurt a kids feelings." Instead of "Lets do whats right for all to succeed."
On Inclusion (the educational term for a special education student being served in a regular education setting) Years ago I went to a program on inclusion hosted by Very Special Arts Indiana (a wonderful group), at the meeting they showed a movie about how wonderful inclusion was, featured was a little girl with Down's Syndrome. The girl attended Amy Beverland School, in addition to the special needs student there were 16 additional children in the class. A licensed special education teacher came to the classroom for four hours a day to help adapt the curriculum to the student; the example was the regular students were learn triple digit addition and the little girl was doing calculator skills.
ReplyDeleteHer IQ was 80. I cringed because I knew that wasn't what would happen in IPS. Sure enough IPS inclusion classes have 40 to 50 kids and a third of them are special ed, and an IQ of 80 wouldn't even qualify you for services in IPS>
To all the folks screaming "equal educational opportunity"--where do you live and where do your kids attend school?
ReplyDeleteAnd I believe equal educational opportunity exists but schools need to do a better job in engaging parents and parent/students need to take advantage of the opportunity given to them. As the old saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink."
TO “The uniform dress code was never explicitly or implicitly intended to draw black and white middle class families back to IPS.” Really?
ReplyDelete“The dress code is intended to teach children self-discipline: how you look affects how act and learn.” If this were true, they’d dress prisoners in suits or tuxedos. This spiel can be used to make an impression on 3rd graders, but makes no sense to critical thinkers since there is currently no data either way as to the effectiveness of school uniforms. The major support for uniform is anecdotal. We want our students to get to the scientific facts and go beyond anecdotal evidence, which can be misleading, don’t we? The very fact Dr. White did not institute school uniforms at Washington Township proves politics was behind IPS policy not school improvement. Washington Township parents would have not stood for such a requirement to receive a pubic education.
“And just who are the "we" referenced in these single posts? I've never heard the principal at School 28 says that she, her staff or even her parents support or even want a G&T program in that building.” Good point. I guess what you are saying is the parents and residents of the #28 neighborhood wanted and demanded an alternative school at Longfellow and that’s why it was placed there? We can see the headlines now, “Southside parents choose alternative school over a gifted and talented magnet.” We doubt the #28 parents (and staff who were there before it closed) were even asked to be a part of the process that placed the alternative.
“If you are truly supportive of IPS, understand its myriad complex issues all inherant to poverty, you would not refer ot its high schools as "drop out factories." That is an insult to the many hard-working educators who toil with little recognition in those buildings.” Don’t shot the messenger. This term was not our invention. You and those who “toil” (and we know from experience urban teachers work hard), better talk to Robert Belfanz at Johns Hopkins, Education Week who published the term in mid-2004, or the Alliance for Excellent Education which continues to use this deriding term today.
TO “Just because a child is provided the same opportunities does not mean that child will get the same benefits from them.” Really? We disagree, but let’s find out. First, however, we’ll need equal educational opportunity for all families and children.
ReplyDelete“Living in a bad or poor neighborhood does not necessarily make someone a bad parent. Any parent can participate in their child's education regardless of economic or social conditions.” We agree; this is common sense.
“Therefore, simply providing the same opportunities in all areas will not fix the problem.” Really? Where’s your proof? You will not have any because we’ve never had and continue not to have equal educational opportunity.
“If the parent does not do their part, the student is at a significant disadvantage even if they live in a neighborhood full of $500,000 homes. This is what is happening in IPS as well as most other urban school systems. Without proper parental support, even the most well funded school in the most exclusive area will have poor results.” Really? Where’s your data to support this opinion?
“This is what is at the root of all the challenges IPS is facing. This is the real problem for which all the multitude of different programs over the years have been attempting to compensate. No program or dollar amount can force a person to be a proper parent.” The so-called “parent” argument for effective schools is usually brought up in situations where the educator and/or school are unable to connect with the student, and so the professionals seek the influence of the parent to bridge this gap. This is usually manifested in, “Make your child behave” or “Make you child do the class work and assignments.” All of this is in contrast to educators/schools who can and do connect with children and youth, and who consequently do not put as much emphasis on parents/”proper” or improper parenting as you. Just look at the work of Marva Collins, who spoke at this year’s Black Expo’s education event. Did she emphasize or concern herself with parents/parenting or call for their support? No, she knew how to engage and connect with her students. The video shown of her in her classroom at the Expos event illustrated her intent, passions, educational politics, and basic determination. You could just see and feel it. Or, look at James Comer’s work. He notes that in the absence of relationships no significant learning can take place. It’s all about trust. It is in the vacuum of dis-connection that alienated educators and schools reach out to parents/guardians. To many, (not most) educators, connecting and engaging students, not parents, is the challenge.
TO “To all the folks screaming "equal educational opportunity"--where do you live and where do your kids attend school?” We are a newly formed education watchdog group. Thanks to this blog, we now have a voice. We are educators who live inside and outside the IPS district. We are employed and retired educators. Children of the “members” attend school in IPS and other county public schools.
“And I believe equal educational opportunity exists, but schools need to do a better job in engaging parents and parent/students need to take advantage of the opportunity given to them. As the old saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink." Where’s your proof equal educational opportunity exists? As was mentioned in a response to another writer, America does not have equal educational opportunity. This is just rhetoric from Brown v. Board of Education. Otherwise you would be able to find data supporting your statement. Our proof it does not exist is exemplified by the very school separate and unequal schools (both private, parochial, and public) in Marion County. We don’t have to look far. There is no way the educational opportunity at Washington Community H. S. or IPS Horizons Alternative H.S. and those at Warren Central are equal.
If you need data to support the significance of parental support (or lack thereof)as the number one problem with public education you are a moron.
ReplyDeleteI know who "we" is and he isn't part of "a newly formed education watchdog group."
ReplyDeleteProve me wrong by posting the name of said "newly formed education watchdog group."
TO “If you need data to support the significance of parental support (or lack thereof) as the number one problem with public education you are a moron.”
ReplyDeleteWe are not morons; we are educators. We agree with the National Urban Alliance, the challenge is to connect with students. We need a pedagogy that taps into student emotions, that act as a student voice, and that empowers students with their strengths.
We approach pedagogy from the standpoint of culture. By culture we mean whatever is meaningful and relevant to the learner, and making sure that what is meaningful and relevant to the learner matches what is relevant and meaningful to the school and curriculum or the state of Indiana when we’re looking at standards.
So teachers need to find out who the student is first, getting to know who they are and tapping into a student’s “frames of reference.” If teachers can figure out what a student’s frame is: how they perceive the world and how they perceive the world sees them, then the teacher can look at national or state standards and say, “OK, this is where you’re coming from, this is where I know you need to be: How can I make this relevant to you? This is instead of, “This is what you need to learn.” This is often times the case since educators do not think or realize getting to know the student and their frame of reference helps them communicate by being able to connect new information to what the student already knows or knowledge the student brings to the classroom: that child’s “frame of reference”--the frame by which the teacher references (associates to previous patterns) new knowledge and or ideas.
Note this has nothing to do with parents. The challenges is to form relationships of mutual respect with students, understand and appreciate their fame of reference and go about the duty of making state standards meaningful and relevant via this frame. This is very practical especially if the teacher knows their subject matter well.
In short, we just disagree that the number one problem with public education is not parental support.
TO “I know who "we" is and he isn't part of "a newly formed education watchdog group." Prove me wrong by posting the name of said "newly formed education watchdog group."
ReplyDeleteInteresting reaction. We appreciate the recognition we are receiving and emotions and politics underlying your challenge to disclose our “name” as though this is needed to validate our assertions. We described our organization previously, yet you implied the description was misleading. We are stating the truth about who we are in the same way many school districts around America state graduation and attendance rates.
Our organization is about ideas. We reject any ad hominid arguments or innuendos built on who says what. We want to be judged on the substance, meaning, and relevance of our ideas regarding educating all children to high levels presented for discussion and critique. Believe and say what you will, but due to the politically necessary spirit of obscurity of IPS B.S., we will remain, as you and all others have remained on this blog, anonymous.
Quoting from above:
ReplyDelete"Note this has nothing to do with parents. The challenges is to form relationships of mutual respect with students, understand and appreciate their fame of reference and go about the duty of making state standards meaningful and relevant via this frame. This is very practical especially if the teacher knows their subject matter well."
Nothing to do with parents?!! Are you kidding? Sorry, instilling respect for authority and providing them with a "frame of reference" as it pertains to their education is EXACTLY what many perents are failing to do. Teachers being willing to take on this challenge themselves is commendable. However, addressing this challenge is also EXACTLY what prohibits them from doing what they are there to do...TEACH.
Perhaps the term moron was a bit harsh, but I must say you are trying awful hard not to acknowledge what is right in front of your face.