The immunity is qualified, which means you have to be doing your job for it to kick in. IPS B.S. is all for whatever it takes to put order in the classroom because students shouldn't have their education impeded because of one or two unruly kids.
But if the state is giving us new immunity, shouldn't the union lower our dues since we don't need their legal defense fund to protect us in this area?
ohhhh no.....I will gladly fork over the less than $30 per pay to keep that insurance. The sentence, "All you have to be doing is your job for it to kick in..." that's what bothers me. Who's to say you are doing your job? Who's to say it wasn't carried too far? Your idea of appropriate discipline and mine may be on opposite sides of the spectrum. For example...a woman spanks her child in a Wal-mart for throwing a temper-tantrum over candy, police are called, child is put in CPS custody, poor frazzled mother is arrested and slammed all over the news. To me, this is responsible parenting, not child abuse. That area is WAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too gray for me to give up my "sleep-easy" policy.
ReplyDeleteI will be happy to continue paying my union dues. The insurance (and our 3% pay increase) exist because of those who graciously volunteer their time to improve my salary.
ReplyDeleteWhile this contract addressed only our salary, language in the contract is the next hurdle, and I'm confident Ann Wilkins and her crew will strive to create positive changes.
I'll also continue paying my umbrella liability insurance, which not only covers my home and car, it provides half a million for legal defense for me as an educator.
I appreciate that the state is doing what it can to give us more tools to ensure success in our classrooms, but, ultimately, it's up to us to create a safe, controlled environment that facilitates learning.
We can blame the parents, which I do regularly, but we are in charge during the school day.
that legal coverage can help us sue a parent or child who injures US in the line of duty....The school board could care less. They just want to avoid bad P.R. That insurance is very important and I would not step into a classroom without it.
ReplyDeleteMy wife works for another school corporation, but you are covered, in the event of a lawsuit, regardless of whether you belong to the union. We checked into this and received counsel before electing to stop paying union dues.
ReplyDeleteAfter many years of paying union dues, I finally got wise.
ReplyDeleteI now have two separate professional liability policies. One is an umbrella policy attached to my homeowner's insurance. The coverage is for $1M, and the premium is $79.00 per year.
The second educators professional liability policy is through my membership in CEC (Council for Exceptional Children). The yearly dues for CEC are only $34.00, and I purchased, just last week, an educator's professional liability policy with Savers Property & Casualty Insurance Co. whose home offices are in Overland Park, KS. This second educators professional liability policy is for $2M, and the yearly premium is $136.00.
So, the way I figure it, I have $3M in professional liability insurance coverage for a little over $300 per year.
I'm in a high-risk professional category...special education...and I feel more comfortable with the $3M liability coverage.
Frankly, the only reason I paid union dues for so long was for the professional liability insurance coverage. When I learned I could obtain the same coverage, if not better, I severed my professional relationship with the IEA and NEA.
Those policies cover damages or penalties assessed. You would have to pay thousands out of your own pocket for attorneys' fees so you may have outwitted yourself. I hope you never have to find out. Also the School Board sometimes settles out of court letting themselves off the hook for a small amount but placing all of the blame on the teacher which then results in huge attorneys' fees and settlements. Be careful.
ReplyDeleteSo, 3:11, I'll assume you'll be returning any increase in pay that the union, which you chose not to support, negotiated on your behalf? Of course, please keep the $79 and $136. We union members would hate to think your butt is hanging in the wind while we're backed by those who care about our peers, and show their devotion by regularly paying their dues....monetarily and through hard work.
ReplyDeleteFor 4:27 and 4:33 PM:
ReplyDeleteYes, I've left the union. I'm from a region in the US where unions do not exist. I suppose it's a cultural thing with me. Unions are for 'blue collar' workers, not professional workers.
I've never considered education to be anything other than a professional career. Unions do not speak to my needs nor to my wishes as a professional. Not until I moved to Indiana did I confront the union mentality among my professional co-workers. From my point of view, the union mentality is purely 'blue collar'. Perhaps the auto industry and its strong union connections here in Indiana account for such warm union feelings among university educated folks. I can think of no other reason.
Personally, I'm turned off by co-workers who wear cheap, tacky t-shirts with union slogans plastered across their backs during the school day. God, it looks so low class. Take a good long look at the teachers on the local TV news when they're hanging out in the School Board meeting area. They look like they're dressed to clean someone's house, not instruct students.
No, I'll not be returning any monies to the union because of an insignificant pay raise. I've watched the union represent too many non-union members when they're experiencing problems with their working conditions. I'll take my chances, and I'll continue to do my job.
I pray that you are not at my school, 4:58. If so, I hope I don't find out.
ReplyDeleteIndianapolis is part of the "Rust Belt", where unions made sure one of our parents had living wages while our mothers (and those of most of the neighborhood kids....IPS 39) could stay home to raise us.
Five of the six kids in my two-parent family are college graduates (three Purdue, 1 IUPUI, 1 U of I). None of us followed our father into blue-collar occupations, and all six are considered "professionals", three being educators, two in IPS.
We are giving back to our community.
May I send boxes to you, via truck mail, to assist your move back to your "cultural" region? I can even stop by AAA to get a TripTik, maps, and maybe even a discount with U-Haul. I'm certain many other union members will help you move. You'll leave a position for someone who is dedicated to more than cash.
If the monies are so insignificant, why keep them?
4:48
ReplyDeleteThank you for inserting the B-S in our blog!
Hey, 4:48
ReplyDeleteIf we're all so bad, why are you still here? Aren't you afraid to be classified as "one of us"? Or do you tell everyone you're in Hamilton Southeast?
5:14.....let me know the time/date of the moving party. I have a two-wheeler, and I'll get the pizza after we see the taillights of that UHaul getting smaller and smaller in the distance.
Signed,
An IPS Neaderthal
Did you know it's hard to type with my knuckles dragging in the dirt?
I'd like to know how in this region of the country where unions do not exist? Did you negotiated your own pay rate? Did every teacher meet with the superintendent? Or did you just take what ever crumbs they decided to give you? NEA and AFT are in every state in the US. FYI NEA is a professional association, AFT is more of a union.
ReplyDeleteMy guess is you don't belong to ASCD either. You are just a cheap person who is willing to let others take care of you. If you really feel this way please turn down the raise ask to address the board and see how much they are willing to give you. Let us all know when you will be speaking, we need a good laugh.
Wait until you get on the wrong side of someone and have to run to your union rep. IPS won't hesitate to screw you, no matter how matter how brown your nose.
I'm not 4:48, but I totally take issue with the idea that if we don't love the union, we don't belong in public education. I love my job at IPS. But I don't love the union. I don't belong to the union. I think I would make more money without the union. And I think public education would be better without the union. And I don't think union teachers somehow "belong" more than non-union teachers like you're some kind of cool-girl clique.
ReplyDeleteEven among blue-collar workers, there is a lot of debate about the pros and cons of union versus nonunion. There are many who are die-hard union supporters, and there are others who see it as cheapening yourself, like taking welfare, in that you're paid as a group and not based on your own work and your own worth.
ReplyDeleteYou think you would make more money without the union? Since they were offering NOTHING for two years, how did you think this would happen. Put that tooth under the pillow and wait for the tooth fairy, write the letter and see what Santa brings you, and in March look for that pot of gold.
ReplyDelete4:48 your ugly uppity elitist, classist attitude scares me when I think that you may be exposing our students with this warped way of thinking. I know your type. The first time you get into a dispute with an administrator you will come running for info and help. My first comment to you will be to write a check for a year's amount of dues and then we can talk. I have said this before and people who talked just like you do, have written the check. You are not philosophically opposed to being represented by IEA. You are just too CHEAP to belong......you need to look at Eugene White and that should alert you immediately that all of us need protection.
ReplyDelete5:21, 5:26 and 5:32...I'm having a going away party for 4:48. 5:26, I'll get the beer, and it WON'T be Sam Adams. Bud was good enough for my dad, and it's good enough for us here in "UnionLand". It will be ice cold, and we'll slurp straight from the cans.
ReplyDeleteI'd sure like to see what protection one can purchase for $34. Where in WalMart is this available? Party goods? Clearance? Or is this a Big Lots or Dollar Tree item? Perhaps Spencer Gifts, right next to the handshake shockers and fart cushions. And, the last time I checked (during bus dismissal this evening), all my children are "exceptional", each in his or her own way.
We can all stand around and watch this "professional" click heels of his/her ruby slippers, while chanting, "There's no place like home." His/Her little dog Toto, can go, too.
5:14, AAA doesn't give UHaul discounts. You'll have to go to Ryder for that.
Dear state legislators, thank your for acknowledging that we can all use a bit more additonal protection from sue-happy parents. Could we get Judge Judy to replace Tony Bennett? Then he can return to southern Indiana to fix his schools that didn't make AYP.
But, 4:48, before you leave, please take the tests to become either an admnistrator or superintendent. You come across as one who would be right at home with a five grand clothing allowance and free reign at our gas pumps. Heck, perhaps Dr. White would share his $17000 bonus with you! Then you could smugly gaze upon we peons who educate the prople who will be taking care of you in your nursing home.
Somehow, no matter what the topic of discussion for the day, this blog turns into teachers bashing each other. I just KNOW the ed center is loving it!!!
ReplyDeleteLet's be realistic, the union is not a cool girls club. It is a lot of work. There was an AR meeting this evening. There are committees that need membership. You need to write letters to legislators, and lobby on behalf of our students and their needs. Check out Dr White's current blog entry, he is saying exactly the same thing that the union says about school funding, the same thing I tell my elected representative when I lobby with my union.
ReplyDeleteI'll use the analogy of an agnostic, someone who says they believes in God but doesn't bother to go to any church. Churches and membership in a church take effort and work. My bet is that in addition to not doing the work to keep a church running agnostics only pray in emergencies. It is an excuse.
I, personally am not bashing 4:48. I simply read "between the lines" as he inferred that the majority of IPS educators who chose to support state and national PROFESSIONAL association (Indiana Educational Association and National Educational Association) are somehow inferior to one who looks for shortcuts to serve his own agenda, while willingly accepting any and all benefits earned by the group that represents those of us willing to eliminate other budgetary items to make the financial commitment of remaining members of IEA.
ReplyDeleteThe original blog topic was as to whether our union dues should be reduced since the state is affording additional legal protection. The devid is in the details. Who is to say that an accused educator was "doing his job"? Most of the time, it's just the teacher and the kids, and he said/she said can get ugly. Fast.
My AR knows me, has been in my room, has seen my classroom management and can attest to my qualities as a highly qualified educator. That is because I'm a member.
You're up against a bunch of potentially vindictive kids, drug-addled parents, or hormonal girls with crushes (of course, this isn't Lawrence, where you'll get a year's pay, and additional year of seniority on your TRF, and a neutral recommendation), then go on with your life in the next school system.
Good luck. I hear Cambridge is hiring.
The other point is that this only protects you if you are sued because you disciplined a child. What happens when you turn your head and a child falls out of a chair and splits open their head, and the parents decide you are responsible, after all they told you their child was clumsy and you failed to watch over him with enough care.
ReplyDeleteMany years ago a teacher of a first grade student was sued at one of my old schools, as I recall the child was picked up by her sister, who was a fifth grader, as the parents had directed. They walked around to the front of the school and climbed up on some unsalted, uncleared stairs, all children had been told not to go near the stairs. He fell. They sued. They won.
6:02, the problem is the union keeps me from being able to negotiate my own raises. We can only get raises as a group. Which is great if you're among "the weakest links." But it's bad for those of us who would likely get better raises in a more traditional professional environment as opposed to waiting for the union to negotiate raises that are "fair" to those who otherwise would be the least likely to receive them.
ReplyDelete4:48 I didn't realize we had created a caste system in this country that was based on whether you belonged to a union. FYI Dr. White and all the superintendents have a union that represents them and lobbies for them in the legislature. Many times their lobbists are right next to the lobbyists for ISTA working on the same side of an issue. There is even a union for school board members so you need to take your nose out of the air and belong to the group that actively works for you all year long. You could even be involved. For your $34 all you get is an answering machine in someone's house that is rarely answered and when you do talk to someone they will tell you that IEA is the only organization recognized by law to represent you either individually or as a member of your peer group......
ReplyDeleteI see you actually believe the system values you.
ReplyDeleteSorry but they don't. And the sad truth is that no school system values your talent and ability.
Try taking your advanced degree, your years of experience, awards you have won and see if you can get a job in another system.
I have a friend who hires for one of the townships, and their first hiring priority is your dollar cost, second to this is your ability and talents. You could be Robert Marzano and they wouldn't hire you if you didn't fit into their budget.
quote: "I see you actually believe the system values you."
ReplyDeleteThere are a few educators who do feel valued. Perhaps not valued by any 'system', but rather, feel valued intrinsically through self reflection and simply just 'feeling good about themselves and what they do'. Money cannot buy those feelings.
Those self reflections where value is realized on a personal level are the best. No 'system', no principal, no superintendent, no co-worker, and no union can bestow those valued feelings. Those feelings arise from within and are superbly private. Either you have them, or you don't.
Well said, 7:27.
ReplyDeleteKudos.
Hey, Pat....(follower)
ReplyDeleteAre you enjoying this?
It would be hilarious if it wasn't such a serious topic.
Come on, 2017.
The question is: "But if the state is giving us new immunity, shouldn't the union lower our dues since we don't need their legal defense fund to protect us in this area?"
ReplyDeleteYes, it would be fair for the union to reduce the annual dues. I think a lot of people join the union for only one reason -- to get liability insurance for protection against litigious parents.
I am worried about what the State of Indiana will defend as "protected action" with teachers. I had to smile at the fools that think all inusrance policies will protect them are wrong and need to review the policies. First you are forced to pay for your legal costs up front and that could be costly. Then if you win and the inusrance company has to "find" the cause of action was covered, then you get back some of the money. So, I hope you have around $30,000 sitting in a bank making 1% interest to pay for your legal bills.
ReplyDelete"There are a few educators who do feel valued. Perhaps not valued by any 'system', but rather, feel valued intrinsically through self reflection and simply just 'feeling good about themselves and what they do'. Money cannot buy those feelings.
ReplyDeleteThose self reflections where value is realized on a personal level are the best. No 'system', no principal, no superintendent, no co-worker, and no union can bestow those valued feelings. Those feelings arise from within and are superbly private. Either you have them, or you don't."
I'll agree with this statement, I have a stack of completely worthless but good evaluations from a slew of administrators for whom I have no respect. I also have a stack of letters and e-mails from the people who are qualified to evaluate me, my students, their parents, people in the community who have come to know my work, and some of my colleagues. These are the people who know how much I care about my students and how hard I work to insure their future success.
To above poster:
ReplyDeleteYou've got more than a job; you personally have a profession. It shows! Good for you, and good for the children whose lives you touch. We need more like you.